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Gral and Shran call a truce


Welcome to Memory Alpha, Cleanse/Archive! I've noticed that you've already made some contributions to our database – thank you! We all hope that you'll enjoy our activities here and decide to join our community.

If you'd like to learn more about working with the nuts and bolts of Memory Alpha, I have a few links that you might want to check out:

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If you have any questions, please feel free to post them in our Ten Forward community page. Thanks, and once again, welcome to Memory Alpha! --From Andoria with Love 02:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Flawed Episodes Edit

Valiant Edit

I was under the impression that Nog was given a battlefield commission, just like the entire Valiant crew. The way he says, "Can you believe it? They made me an ensign!" made me think that, but I believe he is promoted again toward the end of the series to Lieutenant (J.G.)--but it could be because of all the experience he's gotten by being linked with Deep Space 9. There is a time line at the beginning of the Twist of Faith book that also says his rank of ensign is a battlefield commission (non-canon, I know, but it supports what I thought, at least). Anyway, that could explain why he didn't take over the ship and return to Federation space. Plus, you know how Nog was pre-AR-558--he bought everything hook, line, and sinker. :) --Cinder 06:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Well the fact that Nog bought everything hook, line, and sinker was somewhat unbelievable. ;-) Subjectively, I guess it was more the fact that the cadets still acted as cadets, wore cadet uniforms, and considered themselves part of Red Squad, that made their commissions seem less "official" than Nog's.
I personally always interpreted Nog as being "officially" commissioned. My impression was that Starfleet merely waived his need to finish academy courses because of the war, and Nog's practical experience. When Nog referred to "they" I took it as referring to a decision by Starfleet administrators, not a battlefield commission. However, I'm not a military buff, so I could be completely and utterly wrong.
Of course, Nog's credulity is reasonable enough; we can't honestly expect our characters to never make mistakes. I just wish they'd clearly stated whether Nog could have taken command or not (either way would have worked for the story).– Cleanse 08:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I chalk them up for still acting as cadets and wearing cadet uniforms because they're kind of in a Voyager situation--cut off from Starfleet with no genuine officers around. It could even be considered Lord of the Flies-ish. At least Nog realized his err in judgment at the end even when Collins didn't. --Cinder 16:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Rules of Engagement Edit

My biggest problem with this episode was that Ch'Pok was allowed to ask O'Brien a hypothetical situation! --Cinder 16:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd just like to add: when compared to TNG's "The Measure Of A Man", I believe Rules of Engagement is the better "on trial" episode as far as arguments go. :) --Cinder 16:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I was just reading this page and I saw this point, thought I'd add something to the (old) discussion. I've double checked this with my dad, who was a pilot with the RAF, and in military hearings, hypothetical questions about what you 'would' have done or 'might' have done are actually fairly standard. Generally speaking, it's due to the expertise of the given witness. O'Brien was considered a combat expert, so his opinion would have been valid. My dad says this is normal; if a pilot makes a bad call and is summoned to a hearing, fellow pilots would often be asked what they would have done in similar cicumstances. So my dad says anyway. My main problem with the episode is that Ch'Pok's whole argument seems based on nothing more than the fact that Worf is a Klingon, erego he's a nutter who lusts for combat and dreams about killing people! He's a Klingon therefore of course he shoots first and asks questions later. Kind of racist really. – Bertaut 00:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, my problem there was that O'Brien wasn't a fellow commander of a starship, and not even an officer. As for the rest, I agree 100% with you.– Cleanse 00:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nine Vs 9Edit

hi. i noticed on your user-page that your favourite-show is DS9. but you wrote Deep Space 9, that is the name on the station. The series name is Deep Space Nine. Just so you know.--myÖrlogstalkkaptenpage 19:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Fixed it. – Cleanse 23:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Clean up on "The Way of the Warrior"Edit

Just wanted to say what a fine job you did. I added a heap of information into the 'Background Details' section today, but I put almost all of it under the unsatisfactory 'Other' heading. I wasn't happy about the organisation of the material at all, and it made the page difficult to read. I did think about redoing the categories, but I decided against it because I'm fairly new here and I tend to limit myself to background on DS9 episodes, so I didn't want to start redoing other people's work. I'm glad I didnt now, because you did a far better job than I would have – Bertaut 23:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

No problem. ;-) The page was long overdue for some cleanup, and your additions encouraged me to do so. I really enjoyed your additions, and hope you do some more to other DS9 episodes (a lot of which are lacking in background content). – Cleanse 23:41, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I've actually been working through DS9 show by show, and I've added a lot of stuff so far. Like yourself, I felt that many episodes were really lacking in info. The background detail on the episode "Facets" for example was composed exclusively of a goof regarding Odo's communicator. Bascially every show prior to Way of the Warrior has at least one point I've done, most have 3 or 4, some, like "The Search, Part II and "The Die is Cast" have 6 or 7 entries. So if you look back through the first 3 Seasons you'll see plenty of edits, with plenty more to come for Seasons 4-7. DS9 is my all-time favourite TV show, and I think Memory Alpha is a great site, so I'm happy to contribute to people's knowledge of the show – Bertaut 01:07, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Edit

Thanks for reverting that vandalism. Good catch. --- Jaz 03:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Glad to help :-) – Cleanse 06:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

POV stuffEdit

Dunno if you noticed... but I took planets out of the eternal objects. Mostly because they're not. Not in the same realm as stars and nebulae at least! :) -- Sulfur 02:34, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. It's arbitrary, but as long as its clear when to use present tense I really have no problems. :-) – Cleanse 02:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


That was pretty cool :-) -FleetCaptain 04:22, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Minor edits Edit

I shall endeavour to do so in the future. Apologies for the inconvenience. Additional - the spoiler section bit on 7 June should go at the top because it will appear on the main page as a section. -- Michael Warren | Talk 10:05, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Main Edit

I've begin a discussion on Portal talk:Main and would like to hear your input on the subject. Regards, Nat.tang 00:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Portal:Main Edit

I've made a compromise version (User:Nat.tang/Sandbox Main Page 3/test) keeping a majority of the looks, but making the panels even at the same time.... Nat.tang 04:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Combs as Weyoun and Brunt Edit

Hey. I noticed on the requested pictures page, you said you were looking for the credit from DS9: "The Dogs of War" for Jeffrey Combs as both Weyoun and Brunt. I've uploaded that picture. Not sure how to link you directly to it, but I've put the picture in the BG sections of "Dogs of War" anyway, so you'll find it there. – Bertaut talk 01:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Administrator rights Edit

Hi Cleanse, I just gave you admin rights after your successful nomination, which can be found here: Memory Alpha:Nominations for administratorship/Archive#User:Cleanse (5/0). Feel free to ask if you have any questions regarding admin rights or tasks... :) -- Cid Highwind 19:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Cleanse, I didn't know you were for nomination, I would have voted if I had. I would have opposed your nomination of course cause I think you suck, but then again I think everyone sucks. No, seriously, I just wanted to say congrats. You've been a great help to me over the last few months, so I wish you the best of luck with it. – Bertaut talk 22:42, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I also want to congratulate you! ---- Willie LLAP 22:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: Chalnoth Edit

It was funny what you said about their being two members- I thought about saying the same thing. Congrats on your administratorship. :)--31dot 23:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Great suggestion Edit

Great suggestion on "Spock's Brain" and thank you for your support. A similar edit was reverted on Great Teacher which I modified also to match what you suggested. We will see if the edits hold. -FC 13:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


As an aside... it looks best if you let another admin delete something you bring up for a PfD. Not saying that it's a bad thing to clean up the mess yerself... just... you know. That whole elitist thing and all. :) -- Sulfur 13:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested pics Edit

Hey, I replied here. Also, in regards to the pic you requested in March about Weyoun's ready room in "Inquisition". First, where would that one eventually end up. And second, as pointed out to me by Topher, you can go to Trek Core and find many hundreds of pictures there. I haven't uploaded anything from "Inquisition", since I didn't know where it was going to go. Just thought you should know. ---- Willie LLAP 23:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


On the Memory Alpha page you reverted my edits, Why? I was trying to upload a png file with a clear background. --From TrekkyStar Open Hailing Frequencies 13:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article Edit

Hey there. I nominated VOY: "Endgame" for FA status and, as you know, it currently has four votes. I was just wondering, if it gets the five votes (or more), should I be the one to move the FA votes to the episode talk page and add the "featured" code to the article, or is only an admin allowed to do that? Just wondering. Thanks. TrekFan 11:12, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Recent vandal Edit

Erm, you might want to check the Spanish link on the 'Recent changes' page. :-\ Olé 00:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Damn. Unfortunately I'm not an admin there.– Cleanse 00:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Wiki links for crew Edit

Is that type of link even necessary? We're talking about a site that will most likely have very little information regarding the character and, to make it more pointless, it's pretty much the same info anyway. – Morder 03:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I didn't add any such links (that I'm aware of), I only formatted the one on Phlox to use templates. I wasn't planning to go around adding these to all crew pages, but at the same time I wouldn't really care if they were added.
Some WP pages do actually have some great real world info we don't have yet - eg. have a look at WP's article on Jean-Luc Picard, which has some good, cited, info on Stewart's comments regarding the role and fandom's reaction. It also discusses the Picard Song, which we intentionally exclude from MA. So Wikipedia's different focus means that a reader may be interested in seeing their take.
I'm not aware of any past discussions or policy on this point though, so don't take this as authoritative. ;-)– Cleanse 04:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't claiming you had added it, only wondering if it was necessary. But you raise a good point that I had not considered. Thanks! – Morder 04:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

FYI, I added the link, as I am sure you are aware, Morder. I noticed that some crew pages had it and some didn't so I was simply attempting to standardize. I agree with Cleanse that different sites have different takes and you never know what is going to be added somewhere else that might be of interest. Again, unless we are trying to save the ten or fifteen bytes that each link adds to a page, I can't see any good reason for preventing its inclusion. — Greg (talk) 04:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The only reason I bring it up is the sake of relevance. As you can see in my example above. Someone, and it's been done before, might start adding links to their own takes or some other sites takes on characters which are not what we are (a link farm). However, Cleanse raised a good point and I agree, but this could be up for a discussions since many pages don't have links and a lot of people must have thought that for good reason. It's just my 2c. – Morder 04:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Template (Phlox) Edit

FYI, the instructions for this template are not clear for the special case where the name is not the same on wikipedia as it is here and you want the display name to be as it appears here. In fact, I first tried it like this:

per the instructions, and you can see the result. There is no mention of the second passed parameter at all - that is why I added the link that way. Maybe you should update the instructions.

BTW, was it really necessary to leave a smart-ass comment? I am only trying to help out. — Greg (talk) 04:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Try not to take everything so personally. Anyway, there's another wiki template here Template:W which has more instructions for use and fits with what you were trying to do. I prefer the w anyway since it's shorter and adds the little wiki icon. – Morder 04:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but that comment was meant for me, personally, so I assume it was intended for me to take it that way. Otherwise, it might have said something like "Updated wikipedia link to use standard template." That would have been an impersonal comment, and I would not have taken it any other way. — Greg (talk) 04:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Greg - I intended it just as some gentle sarcasm, hence the wink and the smile ;-). Sorry that you took it the wrong way, it wasn't meant to be harsh sarcasm. I wasn't entirely sure if you were aware of the template. I apologise for any offence taken, as that wasn't my intention.
Re: Morder - the advantage of Template:Wikipedia is that it automatically produces the format we want for external links - namely page at website. Template:W is better for in-line references (as is Template:Wt which does the same thing but italicised).
In any case, yes, all the Wikipedia templates do need a bit more documentation. I'll have a crack at it when I've got a chance. – Cleanse 04:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I added instructions for the case of two passed paramaters to Template:Wikipedia - take a look. It seems sufficient, but feel free to change it if you can think of something better. — Greg (talk) 06:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Sidebar updatingEdit

Just fyi, merely changing the px size to "292" isn't sufficient for the sidebars. To complete them properly, you also have to add "thumb|" before the px size. Now... what's best for them is to actually use a sidebar template if one is available. For characters... {{sidebar individual}}. This way, we can keep all of the formatting in one template, and change those as required only. -- Sulfur 03:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Gotcha. – Cleanse 03:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

New Article: Star Trek: The Music Edit

I'd love to add this article, and just copy/paste what I have done in Wiki ( ) ... is it acceptable to just copy/paste or how should I go about formatting an article for this great production on MA ... or should it be on MB?
Thanks, AllanVS 12:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

General order 24 Edit

In the Starfleet General Orders and Regulations article, you removed the link to a reference I pointed out. However, that site was not the source of my expansion of the General Order, only a reference to a factually correct site. (Strictly speaking, the former version of the paragraph was also not canon, so an expansion would pose no problem) JeffreyAlpha172 18:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

When you add information which is nearly identical to another site, and cite it as a reference, is it really unreasonable for me to believe you're relying on it as opposed to what was in the episode?
I quote from your edit summary: "Rewrote General Order 24, and added References section to cite work". The site [1] is a fan-created list. It takes regulations mentioned on screen and extrapolates from there. – Cleanse 23:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, to cite a source for further extrapolation, just because I expanded it to make it sound like a 3rd grader didn't write it does not mean I copied what was said there. The only way I've ever heard General Order 24 spoken about was in a fashion that made sense, if you read what is there after you, again, reverted the article. You'll notice it does not make sense, if you refuse to allow people to expand it, at least clean it up to make it make sense. And, I dont go around sites looking for a way to expand articles. Thats not how you work on or run a wiki. I know this.

JeffreyAlpha172 18:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I was the one who reverted it the second time, not Cleanse. I don't see how it sounds "like a 3rd grader" wrote it. It is short because there is not much canon info about it. Why make something more complex than it needs to be? What about the article does not make sense? It says what GO24 is and when it was used.--31dot 00:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Good lord... Edit

That vandal must be getting pretty annoying by now, no? I tried to revert some edits, but naturally, this is the time in which my connection seems to go slow ><--Terran Officer 02:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

No kidding...this guy is just an idiot...there are way more of us than there are of him and, well...what kind of life must this guy have to just sit around and vandalize a site? – Morder 02:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed.– Cleanse 02:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

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