Vfd for Welsh rarebit Edit

I don't think that this was ever mentioned in the source it sites. Also, what is Welsh rarebit? The article never explains what it is. Even if it is a real thing (which I doubt) it's not part of Trek. Tobyk777 03:38, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep: Janeway's grandfather made this dish for her when she was a child, and Quinn offered to conjure it up for her in "Death Wish". "Welsh rabbit", also known as "Welsh rarebit" in some places, is basically melted seasoned cheese on toast; Wikipedia has more. -- Miranda Jackson (Talk) 03:57, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
  • I vote Keep, and I have expanded the article to reflect the given information from "Death Wish". From the episode:
  • Kathryn Janeway: "My name is Kathryn Janeway, Captain of the Federation-"
  • Quinn: "-the Federation starship Voyager. Yes, I know all that. Look, Welsh rarebit just like your grandfather used to make."
  • So it is directly mentioned in the episode. Hopefully, this will be removed from vfd.--Tim Thomason 04:38, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually Welsh rabbit was what was spoken. I have moved the page accordingly. --Alan del Beccio 05:23, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
      • It's spelt "rarebit" but pronounced "rarebit". Alex Peckover 09:03, 10 Aug 2005 (UTC)
      • I happened to watch that episode when i logged in this afternoon, he says "Welsh Rabbit" and Neelix promptly asks what a Rabbit is. It says nothing of Rarebit. Count23 10:14, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)
        • Tsk, Americans, It can be pronounced as rarebit or rabbit same way you lot mispronounce Aluminium but I can assure you it's still the same thing -- 10:54, 12 Aug 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm Australian, not American -- Count23 11:49, 14 Aug 2005 (UTC)
  • There is no more to discuss here. Archived. --Alan del Beccio 21:41, 12 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Welsh not British Edit

According to the Great Britain article, Wales was not mentioned as being part of Great Britain so why say this is a British food? --StarFire209 15:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

How do you explain the "Welsh" part of this food's name? – StarFire209 21:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. "Wales" or "Welsh" (apart from Welsh rabbit) was never mentioned, so we cannot create a page for Wales. We also don't create a page for Hamburg because hamburgers were mentioned. --Jörg 21:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
If I may interject, we DO have an article on Hungary, despite the only direct mention being Chicken paprikash, said to be a Hungarian dish. This is basically said to be a Welsh dish.. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:42, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
We have a page for Hungary because Jake mentions Hungarian food. Welsh rabbit is a proper name. It is not Welsh food or Welsh cooking or Welsh hills or something similar, which would allow us to create a Wales article, but a proper name. We couldn't create a page for Frankfurt, if frankfurters had been mentioned, or a page for Nice if Salade Niçoise had been mentioned. This has been discussed endlessly and people have searched gigh and low for Wales references. None has been found so the page can't exist here. --Jörg 21:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

But the definition for Welsh rarebit is that it originated in Wales. If Hungarian food is enough for a Hungary page why isn't Welsh food enough for a Wales page? – StarFire209 22:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

As I said, Welsh rarebit is a proper name. Read the article at wikipedia. First of all, "There is no evidence of the independent use of rarebit" and "In the 17th and 18th centuries it was common in England to use the adjective Welsh for things of inferior quality, especially if these had been substituted for something better". It is not enough for a Wales page. --Jörg 22:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

But I DID read Wikipedia. The first line is "Welsh rarebit — or rabbit — is a traditional Welsh snack, comparable to cheese on toast." The word "Welsh" leads to "Welsh cuisine is the cuisine of Wales. It has influenced, and been influenced by, other British cuisine." The English derogation of the word "Welsh" isn't relevant. – StarFire209 22:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

It is not enough for the creation of a separate Wales article. We could, just as well, create a page for Trixia or Trixian, just because we have Trixian bubble juice and know it must be from somewhere. There is a difference between Hungarian food and Weslh rarebit, the former makes the creation of Hungary possible, the letter doesn't allow the creation of Wales. --Jörg 22:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

You said to look at Wikipedia and now you want to ignore it. Unless the Trek universe diverged from the "real world" before 1530 or so, Wales existed in the Trek universe's past. Pretending it didn't is less than reasonable. We don't know if Trixia is real in Trek's universe so that's not a valid comparison. This seems like nitpicking. There are a lot pages based on less substance than this. Should they be deleted too? – StarFire209 22:36, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I am not ignoring the wikipedia article. What I mean to say is that "Welsh rarebit" is a proper name, as there is no single word "rarebit" as the wikipedia article states (there is a single "food", re Hungarian food, however). We have had massive discussions about United Kingdom and Great Britain being canon or not, which parts they comprise, Northern Ireland etc, etc. We agreed that the page for Wales would not be created and it was deleted before, meaning there was agreement that there was no place for the page here as our policies wouldn't allow the creation of that page. There are sure several pages here on MA with less substance and should they be discovered as such, they will be deleted as well. We have Welsh rarebit and we have Great Britain mentioning Wales, that's enough, considering the non-existance of further reference regarding that part of Britain. There is no need for a Wales page, all we could say about Wales is mentioned on the two aforementioned pages. --Jörg 22:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
"Welsh Rabbit" was intended as a slight against Welsh people by the English. They thought that if you place anything edible in front of a Welshman, he'd be so ignorant as to call it a rabbit (a delicacy in those days - still is to some extent). Ever hear Yankee Doodle Dandy and how he put a feather in his cap and called it macaroni? Same deal - slight against the Americans by the English. Let it go, people! Why do they call a hot dog a hot dog? I don't see people getting their tunic in a bunch asking "WHY?" about that. --Babaganoosh 22:53, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the section header, as that is hardly a "final word", given that it basically has nothing to do with what we were talking about. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
In response to the above comment "Unless the Trek universe diverged from the "real world" before 1530 or so...." Yes, it was divergent as can be told by many of the events on the Early history page (Flint, Platonians, etc.). It's kind of like the mirror universe, where for some unknown reason it follows our universe closely, with analogs to people and such, but still has major differences (Sean Aloysius O'Brien, Eugenics Wars, undoubtedly most of the future stuff, etc.).--Tim Thomason 00:43, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Move Edit

I propose a move of this article from Welsh Rabbit to Welsh Rarebit. I have never heard this dish being referred to as Welsh Rabbit. The proper name is Welsh Rarebit, and that is how it is called in the episode, not Rabbit. I know that it is an alternate name, but even Wikipedia redirects Rabbit to Rarebit, not the other way around like MA does.

I will move it in a week unless I get a response saying otherwise.

- TerranRich 02:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

No need to wait, already done :) --GO RED SOX 02:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Rabbit/Rarebit Edit

Just to clarify: the script of "Death Wish" consistently refers to this dish as "Rarebit", so "rabbit" should not be used here at all. --Defiant 12:58, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Script? Not available online is it? Is that noted in one of the BG books? -- sulfur 13:08, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

It is indeed available online; here's a link: [1]. It's also available in one of two script books that are commercially available; one has episodes from VOY Season 4 pertaining to Seven to Nine while the other has Q-related scripts. Though the online transcript of the "Death Wish" script doesn't include the pronunciation guide, the book version does, which is where I took the info from for the article. Hope that helps! --Defiant 16:06, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Heh. I'd (somehow) never come across the online one before. Thanks for the info and clarification. -- sulfur 16:40, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

No problem, sulfur. I'm glad I was of some help! :) --Defiant 16:55, March 6, 2011 (UTC)