Spelling[]
StarTrek.com spells it "Subcommander" and not "Sub-Commander". I believe the Encyclopedia agrees. Alex Peckover
- Or does it? ;) --Steve 17:42, 11 Jun 2004 (CEST)
The Encyclopedia agrees with me, anyway. :-) Alex Peckover 19:30, Jun 11, 2004 (CEST)
Superiority over Commander[]
As far as I'm aware, the statement that subcommander is treated as above the Starfleet rank commander comes only from the example of T'Pol. Since she was first officer, she would have authority over commander-rank individuals on Enterprise regardless, in the same way that Doctor Crusher (who is also a commander) was subordinate to Riker on the Enterprise D. Unless there's more evidence for the statement (which, I suppose, is what I'm asking), I think it should be corrected/clarified that subcommander is most likely equivilent to a Starfleet commander, as Vulcan captain/commander is most likely equal to Starfleet captain. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sman789 (talk • contribs).
"a Vulcan subcommander has been treated as being a grade below a Starfleet captain and above a Starfleet commander."
This statement makes no sense. There IS no rank between Star Fleet Commander and Captain. Therefore, a Sub-Commander would be equivalent to a Commander. Just as in the real world Navy, ultimate authority derives from position in the command group. A ship's first and second officers may both be commanders, but the second officer takes orders from the first. In much the same way, T'Pol became first officer over Trip, though both were considered commanders (and why didn't Trip have to wear the shiny spandex suits? But I digress).
The real question lies in what to call a Vulcan commanding officer? Typically, they are referred to as Captains, but if their seconds are sub-commanders, shouldn't they be Commanders? Though they would still be equivalent to Star Fleet Captains (just as Army Colonels are equivalent to Navy Captains).
It all depends on what we decide the translation of "Khart-lan" is (the Vulcan word for the officer equivalent to Captain). 96.224.225.227
Page move[]
I recommend this page should be moved, as the spelling "Sub-Commander" is definitely more common in scripts from Star Trek: Enterprise (that is, if there were any references to "Subcommander" at all!) --Defiant (talk) 06:54, October 17, 2015 (UTC)
Having now carefully read through the script for each episode in the first two seasons of Star Trek: Enterprise, I can report that I've seen no uses of "Subcommander"; it's always formatted "Sub-Commander". --Defiant (talk) 14:24, December 29, 2015 (UTC)
- Enterprise is not the only series with this reference. How about all the other series where the term is referenced? Tom (talk) 15:25, December 30, 2015 (UTC)
Of course. Good question. I plan on checking the scripts for those too. --Defiant (talk) 15:28, December 30, 2015 (UTC)
Here's what I've found so far:
- TNG:
- "The Neutral Zone": "Sub-Commander"
- "Contagion": "Sub-Commander"
- "Data's Day": "Sub-Commander"
- "Face Of The Enemy": "Sub-Commander" (x4) and "Subcommander" (x1)
- DS9:
- "The Search, Part I": "Subcommander"
- "The Search, Part II": "Sub-Commander"
- "Broken Link": "Subcommander"
- "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges": "Subcommander"
I also intend to check the scripts for TOS: "The Enterprise Incident" and VOY: "Message in a Bottle". Judging by even the non-ENT scripts alone, it's certainly seeming as if "Sub-Commander" was used more often than "Subcommander". --Defiant (talk) 11:52, December 31, 2015 (UTC)
Erm... I thought we usually go with what's most commonly used(?) In which case, I'd opt for going with "Sub-Commander", with a redirect at "Subcommander". Seems to make most sense, given the evidence... --Defiant (talk) 22:16, December 31, 2015 (UTC)
As I suspected, the final draft script of "The Enterprise Incident" formats it "Sub-Commander"; even more evidence this page should be moved. --Defiant (talk) 08:27, January 11, 2016 (UTC)
- Our convention on ranks dictate that the rank should be in lower case, i.e. "sub-commander" or "subcommander", whereas the title should be "Sub-commander" (or "Sub-Commander") or "Subcommander". In any respect, the article title should be at "sub-commander" as a rank, not as a title, to match all the other ranks on MA. Obviously WikiMedia automatically capitalizes the first letter in an article, but this doesn't negate the fact that the article is about the rank of "sub-commander". -- Renegade54 (talk) 17:18, February 28, 2016 (UTC)