Talk: Son'a

Would the Son'a's development of subspace weapons, truly be "in defiance of the Second Khitomer Accord", if it is not known whether or not they are signatories of said agreement? | THOR 00:59, 7 Feb 2005 (CET)

It would be if the actor/character who spoke it (Riker perhaps?) in the context of the movie said it was. (P.S. --~~~~) --Gvsualan 00:28, 7 Feb 2005 (CET)

Sorry about the ~~~~, amended now. I'll look up Insurrection soon and work on that. | THOR 00:59, 7 Feb 2005 (CET)

I highly recommend watching the movie over reading the script, I've noticed Memory Alpha relies far too heavily on the scripts for information, and doesn't take into account last minute changes and what actually appears in the final airing. --Gvsualan 01:29, 7 Feb 2005 (CET)

Needs to include some info on the reference in the DS9 episode "Penumbra". Since Insurrection most likely took place first, we can assume that at least some Son'a did not rejoin the Ba'ku and later alligned themselves with the Dominion (the mention in Insurrection about the Son'a making ketracel-white suggests the Son'a have already had at least some dealings with them).

Since the Bak'u planet lived in a total refusal of technology , how did the son'a leave the planet? --Rami 10:04, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC) 10:03, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Their knowledge of Data's innerworkings indicates that they know HOW to do all of those things, just that they didn't. The Ba'ku who became Son'a just found the resources and did it because they didn't want to live in rejection of technology. --168.156.89.18 17:10, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Speculation/reads as a summary of Insurrection

The following seems like speculation, particularly, may be the result:

"After a brief flirtation with space colonization, the Son'a settled into a pattern of "nomadic acquisition". Some sociologists attribute their aggressive behavior to desperation brought on by race-wide infertility. The inability to procreate may be the result of damage caused by biological and genetic experimentation."

Was it mentioned in Insurrection?

Also some of the later paragraphs read as partial summaries of Insurrection rather than dealing with the Son'a. Would it be better to change it to general events, i.e.: the battle between the Son'a and enterprise, the fact that after their plan failed some of them returned to the Baku planet? This part in particular seems to deal more with individual characters than the Son'a as a race: "Unwilling to wait any longer, Ru'afo killed Dougherty and deployed the metaphasic collector. Fortunately, Picard was able to stop its activation and trigger the auto-destruct sequence, with help from Ru'afo's second-in-command Gallatin." --AnonyQ 01:29, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

• The Ba'ku had left their original homeworld due to creation of terrible weapons capable of destroying all life.
• After departing Ba'ku, the Son'a established for themselves a technologically-advanced society. After a brief flirtation with space colonization, the Son'a settled into a pattern of "nomadic acquisition". Some sociologists attributed their aggressive behavior to desperation brought on by race-wide infertility. The inability to procreate may have been the result of damage caused by biological and genetic experimentation, perhaps involving weapons.
• Their nomadic heritage took them to many worlds in search of precious metals, rare jewels and other materials which, though antiquated by Federation standards, were highly prized by the Son'a.
• In many cases the Son'a took possession of more than mineral resources. Quite often the native population was raided for slave labor, especially the females of the various species.
• After several sanctions by the Federation Council, the practice has reportedly been discontinued.
• The Son'a were highly-praised for their accomplishments in the arts as well as the high quality of their venting and their "hospitable" attitude toward personal relationships.

Sounds like a lot of this information came from the novelization and not the movie. — Morder 22:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

No, The Ba'ku leaving their homeworld because of weapons capable of destroying all life is almost word for word out of the movie. The rare jewels and other materials antiquated by federation standards bit comes straight from a deleted scene found on the special edition of the movie. The same scene mentioned taking native species. And I believe the qoute about being praised in the arts came from that scene too, I'll have to check tonight. However, would a deleted scene be used if it wasn't in the finished product of the movie? If not, then the only one here worth keeping would be The Ba'ku had left their original homeworld due to creation of terrible weapons capable of destroying all life. because that DID come out of the movie... – Aneas 00:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Heh, well the deleted scene is a background note only then. I'll have to watch the movie again as I don't recall that the weapons were the reason why they left. I remember it being that they disagreed with the agrarian lifestyle. — Morder 00:19, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This is a line said by Sojef from the scene where Picard is at Anij's home at night... "We came here from a solar system on the verge of self-annihilation... where technology had created weapons that threatened to destroy all life. A small group of us set off to find a new home... a home that would be isolated from the threats of other worlds. That was three hundred and nine years ago." I checked the other lines I had mentioned and they were indeed from the deleted scene. – Aneas 00:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

That particular line refers to the Ba'ku as the reason why they left their previous home and not the reason why the Son'a left the Ba'ku on their new planet :) — Morder 00:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, that is one of the lines you said sounded like it came from the book. That's the line I have been talking about. The first line you had up there was *The Ba'ku had left their original homeworld due to creation of terrible weapons capable of destroying all life. Which, they did. That was one of the things removed from the article that SHOULD have been there. We were never talking about why the Son'a left the Ba'ku planet, that was never an issue brought up. The only thing you brought up regarding the Son'a leaving was after they left about the Son'a settling "into a pattern of 'nomadic acquisition'." And that "Some sociologists attributed their aggressive behavior to desperation brought on by race-wide infertility. The inability to procreate may have been the result of damage caused by biological and genetic experimentation, perhaps involving weapons." You never mentioned anything about why the Son'a left. – Aneas 01:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Same heading removed for similar reasons. That line was about the Ba'ku and not the Son'a which is what this article is about. — Morder 01:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah, ok, the way you worded your comment up there made it sound like it you thought that line also came from just the novel and THAT was why you thought it should be removed. Idk though, I think it kind of sets the stage for why the Son'a left... The Ba'ku left their homeworld because of the creation of weapons that threatened to destroy all life, because of that they decided to shun ALL technology, a group of the Ba'ku later disagreed with this view the general populace of the Ba'ku held and left, becoming the Son'a... I don't see a problem with that part being in there. It gives more depth to the information. – Aneas 01:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, either way it's fine if you want to add it back but seems to be more appropriate to the Ba'ku rather than the Son'a since the Son'a splintered for a different reason. I worded it that way because most of the information didn't come from the movie and that was my main beef with the information. :)

Species?

Shouldn't the Son'a be categorized as a group instead of as a species? Picard stated that the Son'a and the Baku were the "same race", which was based on medical scans. Some of the Baku even remembered the Son'a from when they were living there.--31dot 11:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

That's a very good point, "race" probably wasn't the right word for him to use but yeah he did say they were the same race and to be the same race... well they'd have to be the same species.– Aneas 17:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I see now that Ru'afo is categorized as a Baku, which is correct. I'll make the change here.--31dot 21:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

All Son'a are Bak'u?

I think this article misses the more likely possibility that the majority of Son'a are not former Ba'ku but rather the race the Ba'ku left behind. Otherwise, how could the handful of Ba'ku that left create a culture/society in a hundred years? The more plausible explaination is that when the rebel Ba'ku were expelled they joined the others of their race that were left behind by the Ba'ku two hundred years earlier. 71.172.30.50 02:30, December 22, 2009 (UTC)Raekker

Quote from above "Picard stated that the Son'a and the Baku were the "same race", which was based on medical scans. Some of the Baku even remembered the Son'a from when they were living there." The movie stated they were the "same race" therefore they are. — Morder (talk) 03:18, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

I think maybe I didn't explain what I meant clearly. I'm not questioning that Son'a and Baku are the same race. I'm saying that the most likely situation that I think we are missing is that the Son'a are the society that the Baku left. Then when the characters in the movie were banished from the Baku, they rejoined their people. The fact that Picard stated that they are the same race and the fact that the Baku remembered the son'a in the movie doesn't prove my idea wrong - in fact it fits nicely. Also all the descriptions that the Baku give of the society they left fits the son'a.71.172.30.50 03:31, January 25, 2010 (UTC)Raekker

I think that's because that's all the info the movie gives us. To say that the Ba'ku originally come from the Son'a, and not the other way around, might make more sense, but it's only speculation. Blair2009 20:17, February 15, 2010 (UTC)