USS da Vinci ? Edit

Where does this ship come from? References please! --BlueMars 13:56, 12 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I think the da Vinci is a ship from the Star Trek: Starfleet Corps of Engineers novels and as such does not deserve an own article. -- Cid Highwind 14:00, 12 Oct 2005 (UTC)

HMS Sabre Edit

I wonder why the name Saber is used here. There was no USS Saber in the history of the US Navy yet, but an HMS Sabre in the Royal Navy. The name should be changed to Sabre as the class is obviously named after the British ship much like the USS Endeavour. There is a one time correct name in the Encyclopedia and it is changed to American spelling -- Kobi - (Talk) 07:24, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)

It's not quite so clean-cut obvious as it should be. It's possible the this named after the "Saber", a sword thing. But there's been back and forth about how this is truly spelled since...a while. A italics note should be added at the bottom for this however, or at least to mention the different spellings. - AJHalliwell 07:29, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
There is/was an italics note. --Alan del Beccio 09:29, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Classification Edit

How did we decide that this ship qualifies as a light cruiser? Maybe I'm not fully up to scratch on naval nomenclature (or MA protocol), but just looking at the stats, that looks more like a destroyer to me, i.e. small, fast, heavily armed, with a small crew, and intended more as a support vessel to larger ones. Unless somebody can explain to me why it's a light cruiser and not a destroyer, I say we change it. - Spatula 11:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Mistake in DS9 Technical Manual Edit

The DS9 Tech. Manual states that the Saber class has the EXACT same dimensions as the Norway class, which is impossible. I dont know what the policy is in that case, but it is obviously a mistake and it should so be mentioned. I think the wrong dimendions also lead to the rediculous classification as a light cruiser. --Maxwell Fawkes 10:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

This too is really a non-issue. The TM is not canon, so there is no sense in analyzing the content from it. It is merely here for completions sake. --Alan 20:57, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Wouldn't that make it Apocrypha? --TribbleFurSuit 21:35, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
um, no... take a look at what qualifies for each again... --Alan 21:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Sabre or Saber? Edit

This article seems to take the side of the ship being named the Saber. Why? The article itself states that the Star Trek Encyclopedia calls it the Sabre, Alex Jaeger - the designer of the ship - calls it the Sabre, the Star Trek: Armada II manual calls it the Sabre. Are there any references for it being called a Saber-class? --Captain Obvious au 10:04, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Both spellings are correct American (Saber) v.s. English (Sabre). I seem to recall somewhere here that it was decided to adhere to the American spelling in cases like these, honoring the American origins of Star Trek--Sennim 13:18, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
It sums it up in the first line of the BG section:
The Star Trek Encyclopedia uses the British spelling, "Sabre", in several places. For consistency, the alternate spelling is used.
The Encyclopedia refers to the class as both "Saber" and "Sabre". As Sennim notes, we've stuck with the American spelling for consistency. -- sulfur 13:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

I did read the part of the article saying it had been done for consistency, but consistency with what? What other sources refer to it as 'Saber'? --Captain Obvious au 14:23, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Incidently I was looking up aircraft for a different reason, and noticed that one of the most popular and important jet aircraft, the F-86, is called the Sabre even though it's American, rather than Saber. --Captain Obvious au 00:46, May 27, 2010 (UTC) Shall I just change it to 'Sabre-class? --Captain Obvious au 06:31, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

While I can't speak on the F-86 article, this article uses Saber since all article on MA should be using American English. - Archduk3 06:41, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
...and now I can speak on it. We are not Wikipedia, which is where I'm assuming the F-86 Sabre article you are mentioning is located, since it seems MA doesn't have one. Also, North American Aviation decided to use the British spelling for the plane, so even though it was made by an American company it should be spelled "wrong." Hope that helps. :) - Archduk3 06:53, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Why should they be using American English? As I said previously numerous sources - including the American designer of the ship - use the spelling 'Sabre' not 'Saber'. Also yes the F-86 article is on the standard Wikipedia page and whilst it's not MA, it's also an example of an American company using the 'Sabre' spelling. From the evidence at hand, I simply don't understand why it would all be ignored and the spelling of 'Saber' used. --Captain Obvious au 07:29, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Renaming this object, because another object, created by another group of people, uses a different spelling, doesn't really sound like a convincing reason to me. Article naming, on this site, typically works like this: if the exact spelling appeared on-screen, we use that. If not, we try to use "producers intent" by looking up the scripts or other first-hand data. If that fails, we rely on secondary sources (like the official but non-canon Encyclopedia, as mentioned above). In this case, even that one does not offer a single, consistent spelling - the only option we're left with is choosing one over the other in a more or less arbitrary way. To be less arbitrary, we have the rule of thumb "AE first!" for such cases.
So, what this boils down to: find a good enough resource that states that "Sabre" is the intended spelling, and we're going to change it. Other than that, it stays as it is now. -- Cid Highwind 09:23, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
Edited to add: If Jaeger as the designer does indeed call it the "Sabre" consistently, that may be a good enough resource. Can you provide a link? -- Cid Highwind 09:34, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
Does this count? Doug Drexler(X)'s own website/blog about the ships and other background stuff from the ST shows. The thread title and Doug both clearly refer to it as the "Sabre-class". There is even two replies from Alex Jaeger himself half-way down the thread where he refers to it as the "Sabre" in both. I hope this meets MA's standards. :D Commander, Starbase 23 04:17, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well Highwind, the F-86 example was used to clearly show an AMERICAN example of using the Sabre spelling, especially since it was by a company that at the time was very prominant. As for first-hand sources, as I stated in my first post here, the guy who designed the ship calls it the Sabre. --Captain Obvious au 08:57, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oh as for evidence, there's a quote from the designer of the ship on this MA article clearly stating 'Sabre'. --Captain Obvious au 08:59, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Also the proper link for the link for Doug Drexler is here [1](X) --Captain Obvious au 09:02, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

The common theme in Starfleet namings is to use the English spellings instead of the EN-US. Like the USS Endeavour and so on. "Sabre Class" would be theme fitting. ZellDenver 09:11, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

So we're changing it? --Captain Obvious au 14:25, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

If there aren't objections, I'll move this and related pages in the next few days. - Archduk3 06:02, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I suppose you may as well, the above posters are right that many other sources call it a Sabre and that other ships have used the English spelling (Such as Endeavour)--Terran Officer 07:09, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
I don't object either; personally I like the UK spelling better, though I can't resist relating a ironic detail. The Drexler-blog is the only (production) source thusfar consistently using the UK spelling. All other literature like the Encyclopedia (both spellings), ILM's own comparison chart [2] (though they use the UK-spelling in the credits of "First Contact") all uses the US spelling including the British publication Star Trek Fact Files And Alex Jaeger himself again uses the US spelling on his own blog. [3] So it is really a matter of taste, I guess--Sennim 10:34, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
In which case, I don't see a reason to move it if there isn't any consistency in the use of the British spelling. MA guidelines say we should be using American English, so if it's just a matter of taste then there's no contest. - Archduk3 11:15, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

It's a conspiracy to confuse us all! If anything, due to the inconsistent use of the spellings, can we call the page something like "Saber/Sabre-class"? --Captain Obvious au 11:39, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Articles should only have one title, to help people find them. That's not to say the contradictionary spelling should not be noted, but if we have evidence from production sources it was intended to be a certain way, we should use that.--31dot 11:45, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
[Edit conflict] - What 31dot said. There is a note in the bg section about the inconsistency of the spelling. It could be made clearer why we are using the American spelling though. - Archduk3 11:50, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
ILM, the premier production source isn't helping either with their use of both UK and US spelling:). Perhaps a redirect would satisfy everybody?--Sennim 11:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody else realize that this conversation is a rehash of an episode of The Office? -Angry Future Romulan 14:51, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
That's kind of creepy. :) - Archduk3 16:05, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
and awesome :). In regards to making it clear why the American spelling is used, I absolutely agree. After all, the whole reason I started this discussion was because it was unclear as to why the American spelling had been used. --Captain Obvious au 06:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC)