Talk: Saavik

Why is Saavik constantly being called "lieutenant" during The Wrath of Khan, if she is still a cadet attending Starfleet Academy? Did she get a field commission for the training cruise, similar to Wesley Crusher's rank of "acting ensign"? -- Defstar 02:25, Jan 4, 2005 (CET)

She was either a Lt. and just at the Academy for additional command training or she was a Cadet-Lt.

Judging from her uniform (with a red band on the shoulder), she is a cadet. And just after the simulation, Kirk makes a remark to Spock about the efficiency rating of his cadets, suggesting that Mr. Saavik is indeed a cadet. But I have never heard of the rank of "Cadet-Lieutenant" in Star Trek, so the title of "lieutenant" just doesn't make sense. Of course, it could also be a screw-up by the script writers... -- Defstar 15:47, Jan 4, 2005 (CET)

There were three Lieutenants in STII and STIII with the red uniform, I cannot believe that a) they were all tops of their class to receive commission before promotion. I believe in the command-school version, they were lieutenants for long time and attended a special post-graduate course (Kobayashi Maru) possibly required for promotion -- Kobi 22:38, 4 Jan 2005 (CET)

In that case, the statement in the article that Saavik graduated from Starfleet Academy after ST2 is incorrect. Somehow it doesn't make sense either way: cadets wouldn't get a field commission of lieutenant before their graduation and long-graduated lieutenants wouldn't be referred to as cadets. And why would Saavik be a lieutenant (instead of an ensign) in ST3 if she had just graduated? Is there any conclusive canon information on this? -- Defstar 00:28, Jan 5, 2005 (CET)

This is based of the erroneous idea that Kirk was assigned to Starfleet academy and the Enterprise was just in orbit as a training ship. But if that was the case McCoy wouldn't say something stupid like, "Why not put an experienced crew on the ship" in Star Trek II. In truth it sounds like They were training a new crew specially for the Enterprise, with Captain Spock commanding. These plans were derailed because of Commander Spocks death. The brand new Flagship (still being built) should have a specially trained crew. --TOSrules 10:27, 15 Feb 2005 (GMT)

That would also better explain Kirk and McCoy's discussion regarding the Admiral's deskjob, and lines like McCoy saying, "Get back your command." Starfleet planned for Spock to take command.

Also, I don't believe that the training simulation was the actual Enterprise... I was under the impression that it was just a simulation room on Earth. --Defiant | Talk 09:30, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, it was an "Enterprise-class simulator". After the scenario was over, the walls opened to reveal Kirk with his clipboard. As Spock waited outside the door to for Kirk, the door clearly read "Mark iv simulator" (or something along those lines) on it. In fact, I think you even uploaded an image of it, iirc. --Gvsualan 00:09, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Back to Saavik's rank, i believe some suppositions are getting away with this discussion: in modern militaries, a commission is granted based on said officer's education. A commissioned officer could remain in school or return to school for a more advanced degree (if graduated at a bachelor's degree, going back for a master's degree, for example) -- they'd still hold their commissioned rank despite retaining a student status. That's what Saavik's uniform denoted -- she had already earned a level of education and graduated, granting her an officer's rank. She was a cadet however, because she wore the department color of an Academy student.

This could also be an assignment -- it was noted that Lt. James Kirk was an instructor at the Academy -- perhaps a graduated cadet is given a responsibility for other underclassmen when he remains at the academy. this would go along the lines of TOSrules's assertion that the reason Saavik and other officer cadets were training together is because they were intended to serve together -- with the lieutenants as the cadets' eventual commanding officers (or department heads). Lt. Kirk (and Lt. Saavik) would then have ended up training with some of their future junior officers. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel^talk 01:39, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I'm a R/L US NROTC Midshipman. I hold the "rank" of Midshipman Lieutenant. It's not uncommon for military academies to assign "ranks" and establish a chain of command. It educates the students in the ways of the "real" military. She could have been a Cadet LieutenantSsaint04 12:49, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Post Graduate studies

It's obvious in ST:II that Saavik is being groomed for a command position. I don't find it at all far-fetched that she was commissioned as a Lt. and later returned for further study an SFA.--GreatBear 06:51, 1 Jan 2006 (UTC)

• That's my take on it as well. When Rho Laren took Advanced Tactical Training, she was advanced from ensign to lieutenant. We also know there is such a thing as Starfleet Command School, which teaches the sort of subjects Saavik would have been learning. I'll also advance the possibility that the Kobayashi Maru scenario is the "final" not for SFA proper but for the Command School. Furthermore, if Saavik was actually a Command School student, then the circumstances shown in Wrath of Khan mean that it is co-located with SFA proper in Starfleet's San Francisco complex, and shares facilities with it. This would also help explain some of the anomallies in James Kirk's background, like how he could be an ensign on the Republic but was a lieutenant teaching Gary Mitchell at the Academy, and still serve under Capt. Garrovick "since he left the Academy". Add in a stint as Command School student and Academy instructor, and his odd things smooth out nicely. In this is the case, and Saavik and Foster were really Command School students, they likely would have graduated SFA proper about a year or two earlier. (Peter Preston, giving his rank as "Midshipman 1st class" would have been a 4th year Academy undergrad, if they use the same terminology as present-day US service academies) --Emperorkalan 20:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Half Romulan

In a cutscene from Wrath of Kahn, it is said that Saavik is half Romulan. An anon just added this to the sidebar. Is that proper? The scene was cut, after all. --OuroborosCobra 02:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

If it didn't make it to the film or if it wasn't integrated into the film at a later time (which it hasn't been, yet), then the Romulan reference can only remain background info. --From Andoria with Love 08:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the novelization, too, though that doesn't make it any more canon than the cut scene does. Does "cut scene" mean that such a scene was actually filmed? Or is this a reference from the script?

I'm not sure, though most likely, it was cut from the script since no such scene was re-integrated into the director's cut of the film. --From Andoria with Love 04:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The scene was filmed, some small talk between Kirk and Spock shortly before he is unwrapping his present in the corridor of Star Fleet Academy, and the scene was also used in promotional material for the movie. -- Kobi 14:36, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The discussion about Saavik scene, the revelation of Preston's relation to Scotty and some of Sulu's promotion were all filmed and then dropped from the movie. The first two i mentioned were in fact cut in with the film, when it was broadcast on ABC. Is this a canon "gray area"? -- Captain M.K.B. 14:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's non-canon enough for me. If it is placed back into a relased version of the film we can move it out of the background. Jaf 15:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)Jaf

Mr Saavik?

Is it my imagination or does everyone in TWOK refer to Saavik as "Mister"?

They do -- its a form of respectful military address. -- Captain M.K.B. 17:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In Star Trek everyone is referred to as Sir or Mister regardless of gender (which makes sense seeing as some races may not have or may have several genders). This can be seen in TNG and DS9 also. Janeway was an odd exception. Cory 00:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)