People keep removing any references or links to sex from this page. Let's face it, folks... Ravis and Hoshi had SEX! There's no denying it. He kissed her and she led him away during the evening, and the next time we see them it is morning, they're in a bed next to one another, covered up but NAKED! *GASP!* Oh, no! Say it ain't so!!! But, alas, it is. I know, sad but true. But the deed is done. We must accept it and... <sniff>... move on... <cries>... WHY, HOSHI???!!! WHYYYY???!!! --From Andoria with Love 05:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Part of the whole point of the episode was that everyone was going to Risa, where you are supposed to get some action, and everyone thought she wasn't going to get any since she intended to spend all of her time learning languages without the UT, and then she is the only one who actually gets any action. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed! Poor Archer, Travis, Trip and Malcolm got screwed on that deal – and not in the good, typical Risian way. Ravis, on the other hand, is one lucky bastard! :P --From Andoria with Love 07:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, Hoshi, the perfect woman. The secret to her heart is to not be able to communicate. --OuroborosCobra talk 07:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

That, and to not be this guy. ;) --From Andoria with Love 07:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Changes Edit

Dudes, i changed the wording a bit because "spending the night together" seems a little too evasive. It's like masking the event with a simple link towards sex article. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).

Protected Edit

I've protected this due to an edit war. Talk it out here, folks. --From Andoria with Love 10:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, i justified my change on this talk page, but no one else seemed interested to respond anywhere but in the edit summaries (conflicting replies also since according to one guy the episode is evasive, according to the other it is not) The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).

The episode was evasive in that neither character said "we had sex!", but the two characters were in bed, nude, and Ravis was concerned that Hoshi would think he took advantage of her. Yeeeah... that's not very evasive to me. :P That said, the way the article was worded was not evasive either since the words linked directly to sex. --From Andoria with Love 10:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Saying "they had sexual intercourse" is a highly over technical and annoying way to say it. Just plain bad writing. You know they had sex, the link says they had sex, but we are sticking with the feeling of the episode. You really can't just leave it at that, and half to make it sound like we are writing a medical journal? --OuroborosCobra talk 11:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

While it is just a minor issue, I agree with Cobra on this. It doesn't really strike me as very good writing for this project. --From Andoria with Love 11:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't think is either over technical and annoying. I'm sure we could all think of something a lot more "over technical" if that was the point. It's just a wording meant to be more accurate without falling either into ambiguous or distasteful. Not at all bad writing. After all, Archer did spend one night together with Phlox in sickbay and they didn't have sex (i hope). The link to sex is quite clear but imo it doesn't make the choice of words less evasive. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).
We aren't writing a medical journal, we can actually try to have good writing here. There is no need to say "had sexual intercourse", which is basically the most technical way without saying "coitus" that we could have. The link makes it entirely obvious while maintaining the feeling of the episode since they DIDN'T put it in such technical terms, etc., but instead, for lack of a better phrase, treated it as a thing of beauty, not a metal cold mechanical act. --OuroborosCobra talk 11:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Umm... thing of beauty... not metal cold mechanical act. Sure, whatever. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).
Well, in that case, why not just say "they fucked"? Seriously though, first of all, the sentence is poorly designed in the future conditional (the "would"), and one possible better wording might be:
In the end, they went to bed together, and Ravis worried that Hoshi would feel that he took advantage of her.
That lists precisely what we saw on screen. Doesn't beat around the bush too much either. And uses the conditional only where it belongs. An alternate possibility might even be:
In the end, they slept together, and Ravis worried that Hoshi would feel that he took advantage of her.
Thoughts? Both are infinitely better than what's there now, I personally prefer the first, since it's actually more precise with what occurred in the episode. -- Sulfur 11:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
As i said, i wanted to avoid both ambiguous and distasteful. And now a question related to procedure. Is it really necessary for a moderator to proclaim "edit war" and protect a page before anyone can be bothered in using the talk page and not simply brief edit summaries? I doubt it's a constructive practice, especially when dealing with people less familiar with a wiki mo.
Sulfur's first version ("In the end, they went to bed together, and Ravis worried that Hoshi would feel that he took advantage of her") sounds good enough for me. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).
Any time something is changed and reverted a few times (arbitrary number there) without "serious" discussion on the talk page, then it's, for all intents and purposes, an edit war. In truth, protecting the page is actually better because it forces the discussion to the talk page. -- Sulfur 12:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
What an odd thing to have an edit war over. Of course it isn't ambiguous to say "they slept together", especially if thats a blue link that takes us to a page about sex. Saying "they had sexual intercourse" just doesn't feel right. – Hossrex 15:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

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