See also: Talk:Ancient humanoid

Two Progenitors?Edit

How do we know this was created by the Progenitors? When The Bough Breaks came years before The Chase, did it not? --User: 12:27, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)

There's no actual evidence (and I think its quite unlikely, because, as you said, the story line for The Chase was written a long time after "When The Bough Breaks") that the progenitors of the Aldeans were the same as the Progenitors from TNG: "The Chase". So, that link to the Progenitors should be changed. Zsingaya Talk 12:36, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I've been thinking about this... should we perhaps have a different page, to separate the Aldeans' Progenitors from the Progenitors? It could include pictures of the technology, such as the Custodian, and the large hidden power source. Zsingaya Talk 17:43, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Since no-one seems to be objecting... I've replaced the link to the Progenitors with a link to an unmade page, at the moment. I've also edited the Progenitors page to the same effect. I hope, probably soon, to make a page concerning the Aldean progenitors, along the lines of what I mentioned above. Zsingaya Talk 22:40, 29 Nov 2005 (UTC)
The possibility of them being the same should be left open, the issue is not closed. Having two pages is fine as long as notes are left at the bottom of each not only linking them together, but indicating that they may indeed be the same. Jaf 00:59, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf
I've changed all links to Progenitor, so a new article can be created there. --Memory 01:10, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Thats no good, because it just links back to the original Progenitors. Anyway, I'm glad someone noticed this, finally! Either the Aldean Progenitors have to link to Aldeans, or they need a new page. I find it highly unlikely that the Aldeans were talking about the same group of Progenitors as they were talking about in "The Chase", because they were written years apart. Zsingaya Talk 09:22, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I requested a relinking by bot for "Progenitors", it schould be a redirect to "Progenitor" and this could be the page for the Aldean ones. Another possibility: "Progenitor" becomes a disambiguation page, but for only two articles that isn't usual. (Especially if one of them hasn't the word in its title.) --Memory 16:32, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
That's a fine argument out here, try applying it "in universe". It ends up sounding something like "Sure I met Bob in 1985 and someone refered to him in 1983, but it can't be the same person because the magic writers of the universe didn't create Bob and his history until 1985." Hehehe Jaf 14:10, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf
Urr... OK then. There was no reference as to who the Aldean's Progenitors actually were. Therefore, we shouldn't presume they're the same race, should we? An example of where we can presume that two species had the same progenitors, are between the Vulcans and the Romulans (both Vulcanoid species), as this has been mentioned on-screen, most notably in TNG: "Unification I". I vote that we should change the link here from the Progenitors (Ancient Humanoids), to perhaps just link it back to the Aldeans, and have a bit more information on that page about their ancestors. How about that? Zsingaya Talk 16:29, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Progenitors was in the script. --Alan del Beccio 17:22, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
*lol* We know that ;-) --Memory 18:16, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Summing up, there's a significant difference between the Progenitors and a Progenitor. There's no connection between the two. In fact, I'm sure the Progenitors were the ancient decendants of the Aldean's progenitors, as were most of the humanoid species in the galaxy. Zsingaya Talk 19:25, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I supported your two page idea. My point is that the issue is not closed, there is nothing canon that says they are different and your argument is meta from the realm of production. Maybe this is not a case where a Ferengi is a Ferengi is Ferengi, but it might be, it is simply not a closed issue. In conclusion; we can make two pages as long as they clearly leave open the possibility that they are indeed the same. Jaf 22:42, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf
I agree with you, Jaf. Maybe there isn't enough information for a separate page... maybe we could write something in the history section of the Aldean's page. And you're also right, that there is no evidence either way. Man, I can't believe how complicated this has turned out to be. :-) All I really meant to say was that the Aldean's might've been talking about a different set of Progenitors than the Progenitors. So... what do you think we should do? Zsingaya Talk 22:53, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
It's nearly impossible that they are the same species, the Custodian was built by these ones centuries ago, whereas the ancient humanoids are supposed to be extinct since billions of years. --Memory 22:57, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with you as well, Memory. In fact, both sides have valid points. There's no black or white answer here... there's just no solid evidence either way. Why didn't that ancient humanoid just whisper into the camera: "Oh, and by the way, we weren't the Progenitors that the Aldeans were talking about in TNG: "When The Bough Breaks"! As far as my imagination goes, I predict that the Aldean Progenitors were Human colonists, because of the Aldeans' desire for Human children from the Enterprise. I discuss this on Talk:Aldean. Zsingaya Talk 23:02, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Has this been resolved yet? Recapping what we've already decided... there's no evidence telling us the identity of the Aldean Progenitors. I personally find it unlikely that the Progenitors were the same as the Aldean Progenitors, because the Progenitors were an ancient civilisation who lived and died out billions of years ago. Zsingaya Talk 13:37, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
Wasn't "Progenitor" moved to Ancient humanoid because the term "progenitor" was never specifically stated in "The Chase"? This being the case, there are only one group of progenitors. Or am I just missing something here entirely? It is pretty early (late for me, since I haven't gotten any sleep), so I may not have any idea what I'm talking about... what am I talking about again...? --From Andoria with Love 13:50, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, it can get pretty confusing. For some reason, as Alan mentions above, it says "Progenitor" in the script from "When The Bough Breaks"", and the knee-jerk reaction is to lump them with the Ancient humanoids. However, this isn't strictly correct, because there's no actual link between the two. At the moment, there's a re-direct linking Progenitors with Ancient Humanoids. It could do with being sorted out... however that's going to be done... Zsingaya Talk 13:55, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
The way I see it, you have the Progenitors from "Where No Bough Has Broken Before", and the Ancient humanoids from "The Road Runner/Wile E. Coyote Episode". Different beings from different episodes. So the progenitors from one episode shouldn't be lumped together with humanoids from another episode. As for the redirect links, I think those are a good idea, since many believed the ancient humanoids to be known as the progenitors. Know-what-I-mean? :D --From Andoria with Love 14:02, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
If the humanoids from "The Chase" were specifically called "Progenitors" in the script, a redirect of some sort from there to Ancient humanoid seems to be in order (searching purposes and all that). I can't remember the details, but wasn't the Aldean reference more like "our progenitors (=forefathers)" (note lower-case). In that case, I don't know if a seperate page for them is even necessary - at most a short note at Progenitor or its redirect target perhaps, that links to Aldean? -- Cid Highwind 14:05, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
I didn't notice until just now, but someone's already made a Progenitor page. I said all along, that all we really need is a comment on the bottom of the Aldean page, or something in their history about them having progenitors. Thanks for your inputs, Shran and Cid, hopefully this will be cleared up now. Zsingaya Talk 14:08, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)
In the script Duana says "The Progenitors" and later Picard to Radue "your Progenitors", so that can mean the progenitors of the Aldeans or some extraaldean species that influenced their culture. Because I can't delete anything I had to move Progenitor and recreate it. It makes some sense as disambiguation page. --Memory 18:29, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Different SpeciesEdit

'Progenitor' is simply a term for ancestor or parent. Where in the script does it say the Aldean progenitors were a different species? --The King In Shreds And Tatters 12:06, December 20, 2009 (UTC)