Explain away Edit
You know this article tries to explain away the post atomic horror by saying it only effected the Eastern Coalition. But that does not jive with "Up The Long Ladder" which talks about the chaos of the early 21st century. In the whole scene Data pretty much makes out the early 21st century as a chaotic time. Enough that the Mariposa had to leave Earth to find a better life. --TOSrules 03:25, Dec 24, 2004 (CET)
- No, it doesn't try to "explain away" the event. I wrote (literally moments ago!) that it is possible that the ECON was the primary power affected, not the only one. Plus, that isn't actually part of the article, but background notes marking a dichotomy between established facts in various series.
- In regards to the scene you mention (I assume this is the conference lounge scene before contact with the colony), Data simply states that Earth was still recovering from the war. Picard says there was "chaos", but does not elaborate. -- Michael Warren | Talk 03:42, Dec 24, 2004 (CET)
- I would just like to point out that regardless, ENT is in the clear, since ENT takes place approx. sixty years after these events. In its pilot, it is mentioned that it took Earth several decades to eliminate war and poverty. User:quanta Jan 5, 2005
- I would have to agree, the speculative note at the bottom is unnecessary and leading considering what we know. Tyrant 18:40, 21 Jan 2005 (CET)Tyrant
East Asian culture Edit
- "However, as Q's courtroom seemed to be heavily influenced by Asian culture"
As an East Asian Star Trek fan, I disagree with this remark. The people in the photo look Mongolian (or some other nomadic tribe from the Central Asian steppes) rather than East Asian (China, Japan, Korea etc). Mongolian (and other steppe) cultures of the nomads is very different from the culture of the civilised areas of East Asia (as much difference as there is between Viking raiders and civilised Byzantine Greeks in Europe) and is indeed rather barbaric and cruel. - cyl
- I'm going to have to argue against this line here, we've had several explanations in TNG as what the 21st Century was like, latest one was Time's Arrow, not gonna argue the point, but I think we all know what happened, the producers (berman brigade) decided they didn't want the evil and harsh 21st Century and made it more family friendly(if you can say an atomic war is family friendly). I still say we should re-write the history and point out that after Gene died and DS9/VOY started, that isn't the Trek of what we saw, it's an alternate.Lightningbarer 17:21, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
- With valid arguments here, why hasn't this nonsense been removed? -- ENT Demons references collapses in Western culture here, the Asian connection has been validly argued against but remains noted in the article -- perhaps because someone is still trying to 'clean up' the history to sanitize it for Western readers/viewers? -- Captain MKB 02:20, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
- I see no evidence in the history of anyone trying to 'sanitize' the article. The reason "this nonsense" hasn't been removed is because no one has been bold and updated the page. This applies to your other recent comments as well. If everyone on the talk page agrees, go ahead and make the edits.– Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 03:27, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
The Enterprise issue..Edit
Wouldn't it be fair to say that "Demons" tied the different versions of the 'Post-atomic horror' together rather well? Especially the bit about Colonel Green really sell the idea that there was a wide spread collapse of Human society immediately following the war, and that it did effect the 'western' world. It's also a nice tie in bewteen TOS, TNG, and ENT, and even DS9 with all their talk about eugenics and ethics--monkey2:twice the monkey 18:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think the editorial forces-that-be here on Memory Alpha don't agree with this comment, monkey, even though it bears some accuracy. Apparently, to be featured at MA, it has to be black or white -- no room for "gray areas" that exist like this one. the ENT Col. Green did refer to this and essentially clears up an apparent contradiction that remains noted in the article. -- Captain MKB 02:17, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
Removed text Edit
I removed the following speculation:
- One theory is that the courtroom shown in "Encounter at Farpoint", as well as the Enterprise crew's knowledge of such an era, were merely constructs created by Q for his own purposes, and the post-atomic horror actually did not happen.'
-- Renegade54 15:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's also untrue, as Picard recognized the time period. He couldn't recognize it if it didn't happen.--31dot 15:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Not at all, 31 -- one could recognize a popularized version of history without ever seeing an accurate account. We would only recognize the version showed to us as media or propaganda -- the true version might be completely different from the historical recollection recognized by an individual of a later era. -- Captain MKB 02:15, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
- Maybe, maybe not, but as it's speculation it doesn't need to be debated here either way. :) --31dot 08:48, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
Anon comment Edit
i'd like to point out that the explanation of janeway's family photo expressing the limited extent of the post atomic horror to be in error. the photo is from 2050. ww3 ended in 2053. ww3 ended with the nuclear exchange, which caused the post atomic horror. thus, at the time of janeways family photo, the post atomic horror did not exist, yet. logic: blowing minds all the time. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk).
- I'd like to second this unsigned comment. The bit about Janeway's family is from before the war, and completely irrelevant to this article. It should be removed. -- Captain MKB 02:12, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
- Star Trek: First Contact and Star Trek: Enterprise's explanation of life on Earth following First Contact with the Vulcans would seem to contradict the notion of post-atomic horror, with both stating that Humanity came together after First Contact and managed to eliminate poverty, disease and war by the early 22nd century. However, as Q's courtroom seemed to be slightly influenced by Eastern culture (the bailiff was Mandarin), we may assume that the horror was not completely global, or was confined to regional areas such as the Eastern Coalition. Star Trek: First Contact portrayed post-World War III life on Earth in North America as something far less brutal.