Talk:Photon torpedo

Reorganization of article

May I suggest something? I believe in order to preserve canon information and then address the technical and backround information, we reorganize the page into a section of the canon information, which would by necessity include no technical information and only uses, forms, and history. Then we can go forward, and pull out of the internal point of view to address semi-canon technical information (such as the matter/anti-matter reaction, gamma ray photons, etc) and the TOS confusions.--The Rev 16:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Canon

Though fascinating, and I'm sure all true, I would like to know how much of this info is actually canon. That which is should be referenced. -- Redge 16:57, 24 Jul 2004 (CEST)

Ah, my apologies. The information comes from the Technical Manuals, which as we all know can only claim to be semi-canon. I fear I would have a hard time finding concrete on-screen examples of many of the things stated in the article. Kv1at3485 09:39, 28 Jul 2004 (EST)

Well, in that case I suggest we find all info we can on-screen, and perhaps someday background info like this can also be listed on MA. Untill then, we'll need to see how much of this info we can keep. -- Redge 01:16, 29 Jul 2004 (CEST)

There is no on-screen info on photon toepdoes in TOS or the TMP movies. There is no mention that they even use antimatter nor that they travel at warp speeds. More detailed explanations occur in TNG and VOY but that is another era entirely. As such, the technical explanation of photon torpedoes in this article is non-canon and therefore anathema, yet it is not labeled as such. It's another example of how fans have totally confused canon with fanon because the entire body of Trek has gotten so large it is now unwieldy, and so it is just easier to take things for granted and believe the word of others (or trust books) rather than to research something for oneself. --Atrahasis 12:11, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Point of View

With respect, I re-included my info about photon torpedoes in TOS in the article because it is the only canon info about photon torpedoes in the entire article. All the rest is from tech manuals or fanon, but every word of what I say can be verified by the episodes. --Atrahasis 06:01, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)

• Except that it is written it the entirely wrong perspective. Our articles are written from within the Star Trek pov, and your additions were added from the perspective of "outside looking in". They either need to be rewritten from the Star Trek universe perspective or placed into the background section, which would be written in our perspective. --Alan del Beccio 06:10, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, POV changes strangly in this article. Also, the first image is soley from Star Trek: The Magazine. - AJHalliwell 06:21, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)
    • I've added a pna-unformatted to this, as I do not want to start an edit war by reverting this again, nor do I really want to do a make over on this article tonight. --Alan del Beccio 06:25, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Actually, putting it to the end as a "background info" kind of thing works well for me, as somebody took the initiative to already do. As for POV, I think there should be a section at the very beginning of the article explaining that all of the info about the workings of a photon torpedo that follows is pure conjecture and is more or less fanon, because it is a fact that it was never explained on screen in TOS or the movies, and was rather taken for granted. The idea that they used antimatter was also not mentioned, especially since they had to come up with a seperate antimatter warhead to kill the amoeba creature in "The Immunity Syndrome"....why not just use a torpedo if all they needed was an antimatter strike? Even Andrew Probert when desiging the ST:TMP ship did not have a clear idea of what a photon torpedo was, but he does categorically say they were not capsules in his 2005 interview. In fact, he favors the idea of energy or plasma.

• Tyler: At the time The Motion Picture was in the works, what was your take on photon torpedoes? Did you imagine them as the capsule-shaped things from The Wrath of Khan, or as something else?
  • Probert: I envisioned them as what we saw during the TV era, they were glowing globs of plasma or some sort of energy. They weren't giant capsules. I envision them as big, glowy, dangerous blobs of... scariness.

Original 2005 Probert interview can be found here:

http://trekplace.com/ap2005int01.html

The weapon may have been explained in greater detail during the run of TNG or VOY, at times even mentioning yields in "isotons", but strictly speaking those were details for that particular torpedo (like the "Type 6) that the Voyager happened to use, and not necessarily the same as what the producers of TOS and TMP envisioned.

--Atrahasis 11:46, 12 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Rewrite Needed

As has been mentioned above, this article is a mixture of information seen on the show, information from non-canon reference material, and conjecture. It needs a massive clean-up to reflect only what we know from the series, not what we might think we know based on comments elsewhere. Aholland 20:57, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

• I agree, it reads like a "list 'o facts" rather than a coherent stream. Liu Bei 16:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Took a stab at it. Let me know what you think Liu Bei 16:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

---

Still needs some work but its much better then it was--Illwill 18:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Specifics of dispersal patterns

Was this ever adressed as to how ships can apparently fire more torpedoes at once than they have launchers? Do you think the pods queue up in the chamber and are fired at once, or are they just shot an at extremely rapid rate? Liu Bei 13:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

While i cannot remember the exact episodes, was there not times when a vessel fired torpedos in dispersal pattern sierra, where one torpedo was fired to then "split up" and become several torpedos

• To me is clear from TNG episodes that Enterprise can Fire a "cluster" of torpedoes and then they spread according to a specific pattern chosen by the Tactical Officer.

Example 1: pattern sierra used in "Yestarday´s Enterprise".

Example 2: TS Generations Movie, at the final battle with the Klingons Riker command: "Worf, prepare a spread of photon torpeadoes (...)we must hit then the instant they begin to cloak!". What do we see on the external shot? Looks like 1 single big torpedo. What I believe was that? A cluster of photon torpedoes flying very close one from another.

Voyager, Excelsior and even Defiant apears to have tubes that unload 2 or more torpeadoes, but 1 at a time, like a semi-automatic weapon.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Regards, Sage.

Space Burial

Does anyone have a definitive answer about what was done with Jadzia Dax's body following her death? The article on photon torpedos originally stated that her remains had been launched into space after her death, but I don't remember seeing that on the series, nor hearing any lines on Deep Space Nine or other Trek productions that indicated that she was buried in this fashion. I do know that one of the Deep Space Nine relaunch novels indicated that Jadzia was buried on Trill following her death - but of course that's not an offical explanation of what was done.
Jesster79 06:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Speculation

When I read this article about the photon torpedo a lot of it DOES seem to be rather non-concrete. There are missed opportunities such as when Laforge and Worf were modifying the torpedoe and the snakes came out of it, or when they outfitted the torpedos with phase discriminators to attack the aliens on their plane (Time's Arrow TNG) I think the speculation about the spread pattern above regarding Generations is moot.. The art dept. didn't get the script change to spread and they only showed one torpedo... big deal.. I don't think I need to explain to you that this is a TV Show and a set of movies, nothing more. This article needs to be re-written with respect to what has been SEEN on Star Trek or written in books that we regard as Star Trek lore, not someone's opinion about what they surmise a torpedo spread is..let's get real here Seb 09:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Torpedo Glow

What causes the glow of the torpedoes? Do they have shields of some sort? --Skyler 15:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

no actual explanation was given in universe for the glow, but sheilds would explain it well, and would help explain how photon torps can be set to specific frequencies (like in generations), how they can survive the heat of a stars core (as seen in TNG), and why the glow seems to brighten over time after launch. but without a in universe statement, it's still just speculation. - Mithril 19:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Remeber too they also have small impulse engines on them, which could be a contributing factor (and also help distinguish the color of the glow).--CaptainCaca 04:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

janeways apparent death

should we put in that in the episode coda captain janeway thought she had died?

Klingon D7 with Photon Torpedoes?

I just got done watching "More Tribbles, More Troubles", which is supposedly the episode where it is confirmed (in dialogue) that the D7 class battlecruiser has photon torpedoes. Can anyone show me where in the episode this is stated? This is bugging me. Even though they probably were photon torpedoes that we saw in TAS and Prophecy (and we know the Klingons had this weapon in ENT), I don't think they ever come out and say it! They just use a generic torpedo effect. --AC84 12:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Can we please leave this discussion on one talk page, rather than spreading it across the web? --Alan 13:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Warhead

I have noticed on this page that it stated that a photon torpedos warhead was filled ith 1.5 KG of antideuterium but that fact stated in numerous episodes states that a warhead was filled with antimatter not antidueterium– Livi 82.40.95.199 17:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Anti-deuterium IS anti-matter. It is the anti-matter counterpart to deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen containing one neutron. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 18:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Penetration and damage

Do photon torpedos penetrate before detonating?

I was thinking, if they're 64 megatons, one should thoroughly destroy any commonly sized ship pretty much. On the other hand, think about the Project Orion (in the real world) craft that was supposed to be propelled by nukes. If the nuke goes off right next to a hull, most of the energy would go into radiation. You'd have radiation, heating, and explosive effects from the heating, but it might not be very efficient or do much damage relatively speaking.

So, do they penetrate before exploding? Of course, given their size, I think 500 pounds might be a bit light for an armor-piercing design, and it's not the right shape either. I don't know how much physical armor ships have.

Although, on my thoughts that PTs should demolish a ship, there are some numbers that indicate Star Trek ships are really heavily built. Voyager is 700,000 tonnes, which is 7 supercarriers, and it's not as big as 7 supercarriers. (I guess you wouldn't expect it to float like a ship though). I also recall the Bird of Prey being really really dense, from something I read somewhere.

I don't recall well enough, what has happened historically on the shows and movies when torpedos hit a ship with shields down. Do they always destroy a ship? --Howdybob 17:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

In Star Trek III the Enterprise got hit by PTs with her shields down it blew massive holes through the hull but didn't destroy it, however the Grissom was destroyed in a single shot. In several TOS movie they mention 'defensive fields' in addition to shields, i assume they are the same as the hull polarization used in ENT or just increased power to the structural integrity fields, maybe the Enterprise had this activated in ST:III even when its shields were down. -takane2 11:19, December 18, 2007 (EST)

An Alternate Viewpoint

An alternative viewpoint: I never heard photon torpedoes were anti-matter based weapons. In the TOS episode "Obsession" Kirk fired photon torpedoes at the gas creature with no effect. Then when they used a weapons they never used before, a rigged up matter-antimatter bomb, were they able to kill it. Personally, I always assumed that they used the same technology as PHASERS since they shared the same nomenclature of "photons."

I removed this as it's very speculative and non-canon --Morder 01:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea why someone would want to add their own viewpoint, this is an encyclopedia not a forum. Especially a viewpoint with a glaring mistake: photon torpedoes were repeatedly stated, in canon, to be matter/anti-matter weapons. So there goes that. --From Andoria with Love 01:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)