Talk:Patterns of Force (episode)

German Broadcast

Kobi, you're not 100 % right with pay-tv. In Austria, ORF aired this Episode some years ago. But also late at night. - DerTeufel 21:29, 18 Jun 2004 (CEST)

In that case you should add the info under "Austrian TV", but only Premiere has broadcasted the episode so far in Germany -- Kobi 12:17, 19 Jun 2004 (CEST)

Opinionated info

The historical premise underlying this episode is shaky at best. When Kirk asks John Gill why he picked Nazi Germany as the model, the dying professor croaks out, "Most efficient. . .state that earth ever knew," and Spock briefly recapitulates Nazi Germany's rise to power. However, contrary to the popular stereotype, the Nazis' government and administration were anything but efficient. Rather, it was the pre-Nazi Prussian military and bureaucracy that had such a reputation, and the Nazis, who had a welter of overlapping jurisdictions and turf battles, actually impeded the otherwise legendary German efficiency to a surprising extent. Furthermore, the whole idea behind the episode is implausible anyway, because the basis of Nazism wasn't "efficiency," as Gill suggests to Kirk, but rather racism, xenophobia and aggression. You could not introduce the "good" elements of Nazism because there were none, and whatever benefits did come out of it were purely transitory and accidental. So unless Gill was a real maverick, it's not likely that he would introduce such a system in the first place.

The following was removed from the article's background information as it presents an individual's opinion as to the credibility of the episode. --From Andoria with Love 05:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Its interesting that someone would write such a long-winded statement, then invalidate it with the last statement -- obviously Gill was a 'real' maverick -- he walked away from the federation and started handing aliens swastikas. Therefore, it was likely he would introduce it, and the entire paragraph is a circular argument restating, trying to disprove, and then eventualy un-disproving things that probably could be better placed in the ep summary. -- Captain M.K. Bartel^talk 13:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Image caption change

I added a brief update to the caption for the image showing Kirk in an SS uniform. This uniform was listed originally as a senior SS officer uniform. In reality, it is more likely a Waffen-SS uniform. These styles of uniforms were prominent in the Waffen SS. It could be an Allemeigne SS uniform but the Allemeigne SS did not adapt the grey uniforms until later in the war. Since the Nazi takeover of Ekos happened a relatively short time ago before Kirk and Spock's visit, it is more likely that it is a Waffen SS uniform. Minutae, I know...but more complete. --71.211.128.76 01:27, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Stardate

I removed the stardate because Dagger of the Mind is supposed to be the first episode where Spock uses the mind meld so it wouldn't make sense if this came first. 24.158.198.135 07:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that wouldn't have been a valid reason to remove the stardate, since stardates have never been congruent in the first place. However, this particular stardate was never mentioned in the episode, and is therefore non-canon, so it can be removed based on that. --From Andoria with Love 18:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The Longwinded One Seeks To Clarify

"So unless Gill was a real maverick, it's not likely that he would introduce such a system in the first place."

Its interesting that someone would write such a long-winded statement, then invalidate it with the last statement -- obviously Gill was a 'real' maverick -- he walked away from the federation and started handing aliens swastikas. Therefore, it was likely he would introduce it, and the entire paragraph is a circular argument restating, trying to disprove, and then eventualy un-disproving things that probably could be better placed in the ep summary. -- Captain M.K. Barteltalk 13:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I concede that the last sentence of my comment isn't sufficiently clear and does seem to contradict antecedent statements. All the same, you haven't refuted my main point, namely, that the overall premise behind the episode is faulty thanks to succumbing to trite, historically inaccurate clichés about the Nazis.

As I recall, nowhere did the episode assert or even intimate that John Gill had gone mad (à la Governor Kodos, Dr. Roger Korby or Dr. Tristan Adams, for instance) and consequently turned evil, thereby embracing the aggressive, racist philosophy of Nazism. So I must reverse myself, up to a point: yes, Gill the character was a maverick, albeit one who brought about negative results. I suppose that in using the term "maverick" I viewed it as having inherently positive connotations, suggesting the lone moralist (Clint Eastwood, Bogart) who bucks the evil system, but no doubt a maverick can just as easily be wrongheaded. Gill violated the Prime Directive, did indeed start handing out swastikas to aliens and so on.

But since the episode also established that Gill was neither a madman nor wicked nor an amoral deviant, just misguided, only two conclusions remain. Either he was a completely incompetent historian (one who lacked any understanding of the basic facts I enumerated in my comment), or, perhaps, by this point in the 23rd century important records had been lost, so that even experts possessed only a fragmentary, rudimentary grasp of 20th-century European/Earth history. (Of course, Captain Kirk seemed to know something about it in City on the Edge of Forever, but exactly how much is uncertain.) If a precipitous decline in historical understanding took place, one could pose a colorable argument that by the 2260s, even highly educated Federation citizens understood Nazi Germany only hazily--i.e., its evils were recognized, but knowledge concerning the specific ideas, politics and myths ("Aryan" racial superiority, Lebensraum, etc.) undergirding Nazism had faded into the mists of time. That might not be surprising, given the magnitude of the upheavals which, according to Canon, Earth underwent between the 1940s and 2260s.