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Would also appreciate a clarification on whether lines of dialogue cut from the script (or edited out of the movie, and never released) are canon, non-canon, or some kind of psuedo-canon. -- umrguy42 20:14 (CDT) 16 Apr 2005
- As long as they are differentiated by a note that they were cut from the final draft, they make excellent suppliments in cases where useful dialogue was cut because of time constraints or rewrites, etc. Scenes cut from movies that are actually filmed can, and often have been reinserted are really as good as canon. --Alan del Beccio 04:16, 21 Oct 2005 (UTC)
- Unless something unfilmed in the script conflicts with actually filmed footage or other canon references (names, dates, events, etc). This is one reason why, personally, I've always considered pseudo-canon or fanon material to be the equivalent to an alternate timeline/parallel universe. It's the only logical way to clean up the numerous loose threads and contradictory information accumulated through Star Trek.--Mike Nobody 04:36, 21 Oct 2005 (UTC)
- We're not talking about fanon, or alternate timelines -- its more of a matter of variations or exclusions of canon made by official writers, not mere authors of novels or fan-fics. For the most part, there hasn't been anymore (significant) contradictions in the cut script/filmed material than there has been in offically filmed (canon) material. --Alan del Beccio 04:49, 21 Oct 2005 (UTC)
actress note? Edit
- She was Marta, so I don't see why not -- same with the bohemoth, though I suppose that means we would have to note Shatner too then. :P --Alan del Beccio 22:49, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC)
Behemoth Alien? Edit
This is the picture of the alien played by John Bloom, and its certainly not the one that Martia turns into. This ties in with what I was saying on Tom Morga's talk-page. I don't think he played the blue alien, but actually played the larger version of Martia. This is the taller version of Martia. Zsingaya Talk 21:26, 6 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- moved from User talk:Gvsualan.
Hi Alan. I wonder if I could spare a few minutes of your time. I was looking at the Martia page, and there are a few mistakes that need to be ironed out. Mostly, the identification of the "Behemoth Alien", which is claimed, on Martia's page, to be herself in disguise, isn't her at all, its one of her aquaintances. Secondly, I was wondering if we could confirm which actor played the aformentioned larger form of Martia. This is important, because a number of websites claim that it is Tom Morga, however, on MA, we claim that he played the blue horned alien. Thanks for your time. Zsingaya Talk 06:50, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- "The Brute" (as descibed by the script and credits), played by Tom Morga, was Martia's alter ego that this page is attempting to desctibe. The "Behemoth Alien", played by John Bloom, was the large alien that picked up Kirk, because he wanted his jacket and for him to join the Brotherhood of Aliens. I'm still not sure who played the blue-horned alien with the genitalia-for-knees, but I suspect maybe Douglas Engalla, only other semi-featured individual who is otherwise credited in the movie but not specifically identified, other than as "Prisoner at Rura Penthe". --Alan del Beccio 07:13, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Do we have a picture of Martia's larger form? If so, it would be good to replace it with the blue alien on Tom Morga's page. Some of the links to Behemoth Alien talk about John Bloom, and some about Tom Morga, its a bit muddled up! I'll have a go at sorting it out. Zsingaya Talk 07:17, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Well the scipt clearly descibes the individual in the elevator that talks in Martia's voice as a "Brute", who the credits descibe as Morga. The large alien who picked up Kirk was clearly descibed as a "Behemoth" in the script, and was likewise credited under that name in the credits under Bloom's name. The blue alien was merely descibed as "Alien", which isn't mentioned in the credits, but is really the only other "Prisoner at Rura Penthe" referenced in teh credits. So despite what others may have interpreted from other websites, I think this is at least 2/3's right. --Alan del Beccio 07:22, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- I'm still "on hiatus", so where I am at now, I do not have access to my DVDs to make a cap, so no, we don't have a picture of the large man Martia, afaik. --Alan del Beccio 07:23, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I've found a picture of Douglas Engalla, from IMDB, here, who do you think he could've played? Surely not the blue horned alien? Possibly, the small, blue, long-eared one you can see on Unnamed humanoids. Zsingaya Talk 07:26, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Or the near-naked guy they threw in the snow during "orientation" that froze to death. --Alan del Beccio 07:35, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- There is far too much makeup to even begin a comparison, in my humble opinion. For that matter, why would they credit an actor for a background role as insignificant as that of the blue alien prisoner? -- Alan del Beccio
Just looking at the face-shape it could be him. I'm only trying to find someone who looks like him. This alien actually appears in two shots. When the blue horned alien pushes Kirk away, Kirk lands on top of him. The man they threw outside, well, we never even saw his face clearly. There were actually lots of different aliens at Rura Penthe, but only the blue horned alien, Martia, the Behemoth alien and Martia in her other form were actually major parts. Zsingaya Talk 07:46, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- There is a reference to a character "Convict" in the script, the only individual singled out with that name, and he is the individual who I mentioned above-- 'the near-naked guy they threw in the snow'. His lines were "NO! NOOOOO!" and the character was, at that time, referred to as "Prisoner". --Alan del Beccio 07:51, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
So, who played the much larger part of the blue horned alien, then? He had plenty of lines. Urrgh, these bit parts are very difficult to find out. I've also got to find out which Jem'Hadar was played by Tom Morga, which is very difficult :-) Zsingaya Talk 08:02, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Agreed. Google is about worthless as well. Unless there is some way to get directly in touch with the actor or his publicist for a photo or some other description of who he played, I fear we may never truely find out. --Alan del Beccio
Is it possible that Martia was one of the other Changeling "infants" which were sent away by the Founders, much like Odo?
- No. Her species was stated to be chameloid, and was one that was known to the Federation. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
"Martia was a female chameloid" How do we know Martia is a "she" ? It's not stated in the movie, and as we know nothing of the species they may perfectly be genderless for all we know. --Raminagrobis 22:04, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
Contact lenses Edit
In the current background section is a note that she did not wear contact lenses. Seriously....this can't be true ! Tom 17:07, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Is that meant to be sarcasm?! I added it because, in the audio commentary, Denny Martin Flinn wonders if she did, so I thought some of MA's readers (possibly newbies) might wonder the same thing. --Defiant 17:18, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
No sarcasm, sorry if this sounds this way. But she definitly wears contact lenses. Iman has dark eyes and in Star Trek VI yellow ones. Tom 17:31, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
- Well, according to Nicholas Meyer, it's her real eyes that were used as Martia. Maybe they had a different way of colorizing her eyes (e.g. CGI, perhaps?). I mean, the director should know, right? --Defiant 17:49, August 15, 2011 (UTC)