Talk: Klingon Bird-of-Prey/archive

Title capitalization

I've moved this article back to the capitalized version ("Bird-of-Prey"), because I believe that on several occasions the term "Bird-of-Prey" has been used as a proper noun, and therefore should be capitalized. ST6 is a perfect example, for starters. This admittedly contradicts the usage seen in the Encyclopedia, but IMO we shouldn't slavishly adhere to their stylings. -- Dan Carlson | Talk 13:06, Sep 11, 2004 (CEST)

Size

Is it really necessary to repeat that urban legend that the B'rel-class BoPs are the smaller scout vessels? --James Cody 23:49, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Indeed, check out TNG: "Rascals", you'll find the B'rel is the much bigger, almost galaxy-class-sized BoP. Not the little scout ship. --3D Master 14:47, 14 Jan 2006 (GMT)

That's because they were recycled footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise". --Alan 02:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Revert

I have reverted a change by an IP that said the following:

(it can be speculated that the Bridge shown in "the search for spock" was an auxilliary bridge. Its reasonable to think that the bird of prey has one despite its small hull, becuse klingons saw the need to fight on even if the main bridge was damaged beyond use)

Since it is self-admitted speculation, I have removed it. Jaz 21:44, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

Classes

This has probably been covered somewhere else, but why do we have all three classes of BoP listed here instead of on separate pages? --Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 07:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

because the specs, class, and size of the BoP has altered almost every time we see it. the BoP ranges from 70 meters to almost 600 meters (sometimes in the same episode), and we know of 3 canon designations (B'rel, K'vort, D-12). we don't know which designator belongs to which size (again, little consistancy), and we have no distinct information on much else. see ]http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm] for more. -Mithril 01:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

i've altered the class names to place the B'rel class as one of the larger cruisers. although the Encyclopedia lists it as the scout, it's appearance in "Rascals" was a reuse of the K'vort class footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise", meaning that the B'rel was also of the larger cruiser type. i've adjusted the stat block to fit this as well, moving B'rel down with K'vort, and placing the D-12 in for the scout. -Mithril 23:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You can't place the D-12 as the scout. Worf makes very clear that the D-12 was withdrawn from service quickly because of faulty plasma coils. They are therefore NOT the scouts we see. I would rather right off "Rascals" as a screw-up by the F/X department than put in false information. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 23:23, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

so change it to just Scout. the D-12 is one of the scout types, so the listing technically isn't wrong. but to place a 300 meter cruiser in as a 110m scout is. the show places the B'rel at cruiser size. we can't chalk it up to a 'screw up', no more than we can chalk up the continual reuse of other stock footage as a 'screw up' -Mithril 23:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

changed the 110 meter type to D-12/Scout. scout being a general term, it should be accurate. -Mithril 00:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Those sizes aren't canon, they are speculated by someone who thinks they know how to determine scale by visual references, but not necessarily taking into account the relative position of two vessels. Rarely have they been show side by side. There has only been one or two production sources that state any sort of supposed sizes. --Alan 02:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Alan, you're right, but the ILM size chart for Trek III's 109m length figure is, IMO, at least as admissible as text from the tech manuals or _Starship Spotter_. The former is, at least, based on how the FX team wanted the ship to look onscreen; Rick Sternbach confirmed the latter figures are gaffes based on erroneous scaling. --Sean R.

Deflector

Does anyone know where the BoP deflector is? – 7th Tactical 05:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

As with most ships (with the exception of the majority of Starfleet vessels), no, I'm pretty sure we do not. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 05:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I was looking into this while working on a rather large expansion of this article, which is still in the works (on my hard drive, unfortunately), and the only plausible location I could find was where the ship emitted an EM pulse towards the Monac sun that destroyed the Monac shipyards, in DS9: "Shadows and Symbols". The location of where the pulse was emitted from was on the bottom of the ship near, where we have seen in the past, the tractor beam emitter located. Otherwise, the script and/or dialog never specified where that pulse was emitted from, which could just as easily be the tractor emitter, which may or may not make sense, but then again, having the deflector on the bottom of the ship doesn't quite make sense either. --Alan 06:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The only reference made to the main deflector that I can find was referenced in "Once More Unto the Breach". --Alan 04:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Enterprise?

The Bird-of-Prey also appeared in the series of episodes about the Augments in Star Trek: Enterprise, which is not mentioned at all within this article. I think it is quite important, since ENT is the first chronologically in the Star Trek shows. -- Interrupt feed 02:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Read the first line, "For the 22nd century vessel, see Klingon Bird-of-Prey (22nd century)." ;) - Adm. Enzo Aquarius...I'm listening 02:33, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm...I guess I didn't read too much into it...Thanks. :D -- Interrupt feed 13:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

"Phasers" in "A Matter of Honor"

Phasers, disruptors -- they're basically the same thing and often used interchangeably. I think it's taking Kargan's line too literally to decide that the Pagh must've had different weapons than other Birds.

We could just as easily change the entry to read something like this: "The captain of a Bird-of-Prey ordered his ship to 'arm phasers and photon torpedoes.' It is unknown if [i]Pagh[/i] is specially equipped with phasers or if her captain thinks phasers and disruptors are synonymous, as many other characters have indicated." -Sean R.

Kellicam/kilometer conversion

My apologies, dialogue from TNG's "A Matter of Honor" and "Redemption" establish the ratio between the two, and the dialogue in ST III establishes the mentioned weapons' range in that movie.Capt Christopher Donovan 04:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The Maximum Range given for weapons in this article is pure speculation, the on screen dialog only confirms that the bird of prey is closing on the Enterprise to a range of 1'000 kellicams. The dialog does not imply that this has something to do with the range limit of their weapons, it could just as easily be to reduce the Enterprise's response time as reinforced in "A Matter of Honour" when Riker recommends they get closer to the Enterprise D to reduce her responce time to the attack. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.241.189.213.

Aft torpedoes

There is actually an aft torpedo tube also. As can be seen here:

I don't think it's ever shown again, but it seems reasonable to me that most, if not all other BoPs would have an aft tube. Rogue Vulcan 17:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! We'll get our best man on this!

Hey, Alan! Go find our best man! :-D --From Andoria with Love 17:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't we have a sort of an unwritten rule that when a single effect clip shows phasersfire or torpedoes etc. launching from a place on a ship where there is no visible launcher or emitter, and it basically seems like effects guys just went "who cares", and put the effect in anyway, that we sort of note it as an anomaly in italics rather than take it as an established truth. For example the Template:ShipClass nacelle phasers and fifth torpedo launcher. --Pseudohuman 14:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, there is nothing that states the contrary, so why treat it like it is an anomaly? Aside from the fact that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to leave the rear of your ship completely undefended, it is worth noting that the 22nd century version was equipped with aft torpedoes, so there is an equal likelihood that the newer version is also, which is apparent in that screencap, which is certainly as credible as anything else we've seen, especially since dialog (the only potential contradictory factor here) does not state otherwise. --Alan 03:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be right where the ship's engines should be though? TheHYPO 15:43, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Torpedo tube?

In its 2nd scene in Star Trek V [when the commander learns that they have sent Kirk], The BOP featured in the film has an odd mushroom shaped fixture where the hole for it's torpedo tube should be. It's there in other shots as well, but there is a closeup in that scene. It's hard to tell if it's NOT there in any other scenes, but when the BOP fires at the Enterprise after the shuttle crash-lands in the shuttlebay, it doesn't look like the same mushroom cap is sticking out. Any thoughts on what this thing is and why it's there (sometimes)? TheHYPO 15:48, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Homage to failed experimental bi-plane?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santos-Dumont_14-bis

Plexiglass or transparent aluminum?

The last few edits to this page have attempted to clarify whether plexiglass or transparent aluminum was used in the construction of the whale tank aboard the HMS Bounty, with the most recent edit (from me) changing it to plexiglass. There wasn't enough room in the edit summary so I'll explain my reasoning here:

-For one, Doctor Nichols said "it would take years just to figure out the dynamics of this matrix". It seemed apparent (at least to me) that Scotty didn't tell him how to do that, but just let him figure it out on his own--that way he'd figure it out in what likely would be a bit closer to the time when transparent aluminum should have been invented. (Surely Scotty knew quite clearly that transparent aluminum did not exist in the 1980s and thus letting Nichols have it ready to roll then would seriously mess up the timeline.) Nonetheless, Nichols was interested enough by the prospect of the material that he probably figured even partial information on it was worth a few little sheets of plexiglass.

-Transparent aluminum is clearly quite a different type of material than plexiglass. At any rate, it would take years just to begin to change the Plexicorp plant over to producing it; that would be the case even in the 23rd century, let alone the 20th.

-Dr. Nichols said that a plexiglass sheet of 6 inches thick would do the trick to withstand the water pressure Scotty was talking about. When Mr. Sulu drops the stuff into the Bounty via helicopter, it looks about 6 inches thick--at any rate, it was most definitely not the 1 inch thick that Scotty said transparent aluminum could do it with.

The combination of those three points, IMO, seems to make a pretty adequate case that what they were using was plexiglass (given in exchange for the transparent aluminum molecular structure), and definitely not actual transparent aluminum. -Mdettweiler 02:51, March 14, 2010 (UTC)