Sybok?[]
Is there any citation available for the Timothy Leary-Sybok connection? In Star Trek Movie Memories, Shatner states that Sybok is based on the televangelists of the 1980's, not the hippies of the 1960's. --Werideatdusk 18:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Problems[]
I don't want to seem like a prude, but I see several problems with this page:
- With all the jokes, it seems more like an Uncyclopedia article than Memory Alpha.
- It states that hippiedom ended in the 1980s, yet it mixes "hippies" from the 2260s into the article.
- The images, and much of the article itself, seem to be the wrong POV.
- The article needs to be trimmed down to only referenced or implied appearances. Alot of the information could be moved to background, though.
- I'm not too sure about the Roberta Lincoln image, but you probably should move Iggy Pop's image to a Punk or Punk rock page.
It's a good work, but it doesn't seem quite "encyclopedic" enough for my tastes. Hippies are cool (I was named after a famous one), but I think this might be going a bit overboard.--Tim Thomason 04:17, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- I did say in my summary it still needs some fine-tuning. But, there is no refernce to hippie culture "ending" at any time. Punk culture simply grew out as a reaction against the negative aspects of it in the 1970s. I felt it was an important develpment in how the hippie culture evolved, with punk/hippie cultures coming to an understanding in later years. I don't remember writing any jokes, though. Any humor in the article in unintentional, but attempting to remain factual. As for hippies from the 2260s, there is no reference to explain how a culture originating on Earth gained enough momentum to attract followers from other planets. Then again, Chekov's old girlfriend may have something to do with it. It isn't said.--Mike Nobody 05:37, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I set up a "temporary page" that contains at least a good start on making this article better, if you want to help contribute to that. Just don't add too much speculation, uncited info, or real-world info.--Tim Thomason 06:18, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Copyvio[]
Most all of this document is almost word for word (if not certainly idea for idea) copyviolations from multiple websites. This page needs to be scrapped, and rewritten from scratch...this time with proper citation and a LOT less stealing.--Alan del Beccio 06:21, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Uh, multiple websites? Which ones? I borrowed some phrases from a blog and wrote the rest myself? If you've found some mystical websites which read minds, I'd like to see them. As for ideas, I've said before that I've been saying this for years. The blogger in question just beat me to a keyboard.--Mike Nobody 07:22, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I posted more than one link, each of which contains several sentences that are word for word (or damn close), makes it a copyright violation. The fact that I copied an entire sentence from "your" article into a google bar and got a near identical return in the results confirms that much. For that matter, and really, the fact of the matter is, is that ZERO of that was referenced from Star Trek, was terminology used on Star Trek, nor bears any revelance to Star Trek. So even if you got the blessing from the blog site poster (or whatever), that doesn't excuse the fact that it has nothing to do with or no origins in (terminology or otherwise) from any Trek source. For that matter, I don't even recall the term "hippy" being used on Star Trek, other than in the script reference taken from "Past Tense, Part II". --Alan del Beccio 07:59, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
disclaimer[]
Dear Mr. Larsen, I was very impressed by your articulation of the hippie phenomenon and how it relates to our current residents in the White House. I am working on an article about hippies for a website, including background about their evolution. May I have your permission use some of the text in your blog for this purpose? Copyright issues have arisen and I may have to scrap the article if I cannot. Please respond soon. - Ronnie M.Sullivan
- As long as you're crediting my site, (please credit: PettyLarseny.com), go right ahead and use as much as you'd like. Please send me a link to your article when it's published, as I'd be interested to read another take on this issue. Thanks for checking with me. - Jonathan Larsen
- Hippie contains text originally published by Jonathan Larsen at www.PettyLarseny.com, with his permission. Its use is contended to be consistent with fair use rules under United States copyright law. See Copyrights.
I still see some problems here - and I hope this won't be construed as me, too, trying to "pick a fight", because that is not my intention...
- Was Mr. Larsen made aware of the fact that this "article" will appear on a wiki (which means "merciless editing and redistribution")?
- Was he made aware of the fact that his text will be published under a CC-by-nc license (with all consequences), and does he approve?
- Do we want to have copyright disclaimers popping up on every page? So far, we only use those on image pages, and it is my opinion that it should stay that way.
- After that, we would still have to discuss if the content is consistent with MAs POV etc.
-- Cid Highwind 01:22, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- I think it's funny that we put {{image star trek}} on every single image as opposed to simply saying "all images are property of paramount unless otherwise noted". Weyoun 01:24, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- What this all boils down to is pov, perspective and necessity. I am vehemently opposed to the inclusion of such irrelevant and unnecessary 'terminology' and 'structure' as "Age of Aquarius", "Utopian Intellectual Hippie", "Hedonistic Drug-Addled Hippie", "Evil Hippies/Evil Hippie Archetype", "Backlash: The Birth of Punk" and the like. What is the canon source of this? gnntv.com? Since when where they a Star Trek related website? In fact, with exception of "Age of Aquarius", that terminology appears to have been created solely by the authors of that website, and are not even "common" references for that era. So instead of, as you argue, this website living in its own vacuum, it now lives in someone elses? I think instead of comparing this to the Nazi article, a theme, I might remind you, that was well referenced (in relation to the vague blurb or insinuation to the "hippy" counterculture) in several episodes, you might want to compare this to our article on Second World War-- a topic that was far more directly referenced in Star Trek than "hippy", yet does not contain any extraneous information aside from the bare necessities, and is built up around links that are contained from within Memory Alpha, without relying on one persons interpretation (or blog). "Summer of Love" was referenced in the script of "Past Tense, Part II", Woodstock in "Death Wish", LSD, Berkley, Free Speech Movement and the sixties in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Starlings apparent attire and slang in "Future's End", the Roberta Lincoln reference from TOS (which I do think is good, by the way) and the similarities of the culture to that of the culture presented in "The Way to Eden" are, and should be, the only resources used in the creation of this article. With a bit of creativity, and use of relevant internal, and minimal external links, a lot can be done with the article without turning it into a "Jonathan Larsen" tribute article, as M/A is littered with literally dozens articles that are written in this fashion without being what this has become. --Alan del Beccio 05:44, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Herbert! Herbert! Herbert!--Mike Nobody 05:50, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- What this all boils down to is pov, perspective and necessity. I am vehemently opposed to the inclusion of such irrelevant and unnecessary 'terminology' and 'structure' as "Age of Aquarius", "Utopian Intellectual Hippie", "Hedonistic Drug-Addled Hippie", "Evil Hippies/Evil Hippie Archetype", "Backlash: The Birth of Punk" and the like. What is the canon source of this? gnntv.com? Since when where they a Star Trek related website? In fact, with exception of "Age of Aquarius", that terminology appears to have been created solely by the authors of that website, and are not even "common" references for that era. So instead of, as you argue, this website living in its own vacuum, it now lives in someone elses? I think instead of comparing this to the Nazi article, a theme, I might remind you, that was well referenced (in relation to the vague blurb or insinuation to the "hippy" counterculture) in several episodes, you might want to compare this to our article on Second World War-- a topic that was far more directly referenced in Star Trek than "hippy", yet does not contain any extraneous information aside from the bare necessities, and is built up around links that are contained from within Memory Alpha, without relying on one persons interpretation (or blog). "Summer of Love" was referenced in the script of "Past Tense, Part II", Woodstock in "Death Wish", LSD, Berkley, Free Speech Movement and the sixties in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Starlings apparent attire and slang in "Future's End", the Roberta Lincoln reference from TOS (which I do think is good, by the way) and the similarities of the culture to that of the culture presented in "The Way to Eden" are, and should be, the only resources used in the creation of this article. With a bit of creativity, and use of relevant internal, and minimal external links, a lot can be done with the article without turning it into a "Jonathan Larsen" tribute article, as M/A is littered with literally dozens articles that are written in this fashion without being what this has become. --Alan del Beccio 05:44, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Removed[]
I removed:
^See first entry on this talk page questioning it from 15 years ago.
Not really true or relevant or necessary here. --Alan (talk) 16:53, January 23, 2020 (UTC)