Capabilities Edit

This article says that a Gorn vessel is slower, but in "Arena" they were outrunning the Enterprise till the Metrons stopped them. I think whom ever wrote that assumed the Gorn stopped because of the Pursuit when it is clear they were stopped by the Metron Tractor beam. --TOSrules 22:17, Nov 4, 2004 (CET)

I put the bits about Gorn technical superiority back in. While above Cestus the Enterprise fired on the Gorn who simpley brushed off the attack and left. The Enterprise WAS BARELY ABLE to keep up with the Gorn ship and was about to be shaken apart. It was the Metrons that enabled the Enterprise to catch up as TOSRules states above. Everyone on the ship was surprised at the level of enemy they were facing. --Mark 2000 05:44, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I still don't like the language of the article -- while the Gorn speed capability was high, there is no clear data about the "strength" or how "advnaced" they are in exact comparison to the Federation -- I feel it is not a good idea to draw comparisons -- it makes more sense to maintain thay had "advanced technology" rather than the unnecessary supposition that they were more advanced than he Federation is all other areas besides speed -- we don't know that the Gorn deflectors were necessarily better or more advanced than Enterprise -- there was no direct comparison drawn -- it is much clearer language to state they were advanced, but to remove the comparisons to the Federation -- the only area we saw them actually outstrip the UFP was in speed -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 05:55, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You might be right, I'll have to watch the episode again before I totally agree. --TOSrules 05:59, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The statement was made: "They may be faster than we are." - indicating the closest thing to support this, but the fact remains, they didn't know. May indicates speculation, not a statement of fact. Kirk's response to that was "They'll have to prove it." They managed warp 8, but the Enterprise has done that several times as well, even when not under an outside influence. DePaul later stated: "Closing on target, sir.", but this was long before it was said that their ship was slowing down - the point at which it was clear something was interfering. My vote, would be that their technology is comparable to Federation technology of that era. --Gvsualan 06:10, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Agreed -- I've decided to pare down the article text to more of a description of what actually happened -- the Enterprise pushed herself to keep pace, and was gaining when interfered with -- this is also true of weapons superiority -- there's really no clue who would have been the ultimate victor, or even who was technically faster -- why are we trying to make an assumption about an event that didnt actually occur in the episode? -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 09:54, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I concur. There is clear intent in the episode and the script setting the two groups at par with each other. The fundamental equality between the two groups was a lot of the point of the episode. They were fighting to a stalemate in general so... saying the Gorn ship was similar in tactical capability to the Enterprise seems justified by canon to me. --JCoyote 21:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Gorn Ship Edit

Does anyone think we should add a screencap of the Gorn ship from Trek Remastered for the technology section? I think we could even make a separate article altogether, but that might be a little superfluous.----AC84 08:53, 23 October 2006 (PST)

It is just as relevant as any other starship class article. --Alan del Beccio 04:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Do we really need that pic? All there is to see is a grey orb. Frankly, I expected better.Capt Christopher Donovan 06:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Why shouldn't we include the pic? It's definitely more than a blob of light and you can certainly make out some structures. There was also a second scene of the Enterprise facing the ship in the trailer which I guess was one of the shots cut due to the editing down of the episodes for syndication. I guess we'll either see the ship in more detail when the people remastering the episodes at CBS decide to release a better image or we have to wait till the episodes are made available in full lenght. Until then, the current image works just fine. --Jörg 06:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the both of you. I think the pic is fine, but someone should probably magnify the image a little better or zoom in closer. I can barely make out the warp nacelles which were clear on my HD TV set--AC84 18:27, 25 October 2006 (PST)

Star has released new close-up detailed pictures of the Gorn ship. Should we include them? --AC84 03:13, 2 November 2006 (PST)

I think so...keep the "blob" pic, but add at least one "closeup" render to the article. In fact, I'll put a couple of them in the Background section.Capt Christopher Donovan 09:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

File use Edit

Today's controversy is that the pics of the rendering (not a "beauty shot" as mentioned, the renderings are hardly detailed) probably aren't usable under "fair use" doctrine. Also ... since they're examples of the design of the Gorn ship, but NOT what was actually aired, maybe they aren't canon. You folks are more experienced than I at determining what canon is and isn't for MA. -- I remember in the original episode, we never saw the Gorn ship. Damned slippery it was, and even at maximum magnification, halted dead in space by teh Metrons, it wasn't visible, it was that far out. For my money, showing the ship barely visible as vague blob is cool, and perhaps that's all we need to show on MA -- what the "Enterprise's" visual sensors could pick up. --Kojirovance 00:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion on whether to keep those images should not take place here, but at Memory Alpha:Files for deletion. That way we can keep everything in one place. Makes it easier on everyone. --OuroborosCobra talk 02:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Dude, they're in this article. Thought that raising the issue HERE would be easier. I'll go ahead and remove them. So far as I see, they're not canon, not from a screen shot, and a potential copyright violation of --Kojirovance 14:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, we are trying to keep the discussion in one place, and since it is required to take place over at Memory Alpha:Files for deletion, that might as well be the one place. As for the text of the background note, there is nothing wrong with it. :StAkAr Karnak has restored it, and it should be kept. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Raider? Edit

It's a long stretch to class this ship as a "Raider" in the sidebar box. Kirk's log says, "The Enterprise is dead in space, stopped cold during her pursuit of an alien raider...". That's descriptive of the ship's actions, but not really a hint to its classification. I'm fixing the sidebar accordingly. --Aurelius Kirk 18:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, and would prefer a consensus was reached before arbitrarily removing something you disagree with. As per the text in raider: "any type of vessel designed for, or specialized in conducting raids on other starships or bases." The Klingon Bird-of-Prey may or may not be a raider, per se, but they do conduct raids, thus can fit under that classification. Therefore, I hardly see that description as a "long stretch" in describing the vessel as a type (not class) of raider. Additionally, the 2+ disruptor emitters is accurate because, to my knowledge, a ship with a single emitter cannot perform a "salvo", as per the definition of that term: "a simultaneous discharge of two or more guns in military action. --Alan del Beccio 20:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Raider seems an appropriate and recognizable name to call the craft. Like calling it a "Gorn battleship" or "Gorn fightercraft". The only contention I have here is that perhaps, in body text describing this craft, we should make sure to call it a "Gorn raider", denoting a ship class but not a specific model. --JCoyote 20:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Point taken on Disruptors, and I'll refrain from that kind of sudden edit in the future. I still think it's a stretch to call it a Raider - it was a previously unencountered vessel of an unknown species, and Kirk's comment sounded far from a firm classification. The Starship classification and raider articles, if accurate, suggest raiders are smaller support craft. This ship had ground troops on Cestus III, and fought & outpaced the Enterprise. I'm not saying we can firmly ID the type or class in the article, but if anything, the episode strongly suggests it was a Gorn capital ship. --Aurelius Kirk 00:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there anything directly in the episode to suggest that the Gorn use disruptors specifically? Perhaps "energy weapons" or "beam weapons" might be a better descriptor...Capt Christopher Donovan 09:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

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