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| − | ==Maintenance Discussions== |
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| − | == |
+ | == FA status == |
| + | === Nomination {{fana|120154|14 July|124303|24 July 2005|f}} === |
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| − | I couldn't help but notice that [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] has removed all of the references from the article and placed them at the bottom of the page so I can no longer figure out which material comes from where, nor can I see if it is all canon at a glance. I'm wondering which is correct, the list of references at the bottom or the material sited within the article itself. Personally I think it should have both, as a user could be looking for a list of references or be wondering where a certain fact comes from. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 13:40, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| + | I've added a lot to this by expanding, adding sections, and making sure that a lot of the links had articles created. There's still several areas that could be expanded, I think, and some links that need creating. But by and large I think this is a pretty good summation and description of a species, and could be more so with community effort. It's certainly one of the most complete species pages we have from a post-TOS era (which means Klingons, Romulans, and Vulcans don't count). --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 20:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | : Most of these can be put back by looking at the history page, I just felt it got distracting as you were reading through a paragraph that might have 3-4 different references. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 14:43, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Please do. Since it is important to have a reference for each bit of information, it is most convenient to have those in the main text, not as a list below. -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 14:55, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :::This seems to have been removed again somewhere along the way. Once again I came here looking to see how many episodes the Ferengi were cited in and once again the list has gone. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 22:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | ::::I just grabbed an old reference list from the history. But, at a glance I think it needs work as it has a couple of appearences in it. The reference section should not be a repeat of the appearences section. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 22:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| + | :'''Neutral''' Good job, but it seems to me that while there is a lot of information, it isn't necessarily well organized. Futz around with the prospect of consolidation. --[[User:1729|1729]] 23:16, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Old Peer Review=== |
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| − | {{oldpeerreview}} |
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| + | ::'''Support''' --[[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 17, July, 2005 |
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| − | ===1st FA Nomination (07/14/05, failed)=== |
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| − | *I've added a lot to this by expanding, adding sections, and making sure that a lot of the links had articles created. There's still several areas that could be expanded, I think, and some links that need creating. But by and large I think this is a pretty good summation and description of a species, and could be more so with community effort. It's certainly one of the most complete species pages we have from a post-TOS era (which means Klingons, Romulans, and Vulcans don't count). [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 20:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *'''Neutral''' Good job, but it seems to me that while there is a lot of information, it isn't nessessarily well organized. Futz around with the prospect of consolidation. [[User:1729|1729]] 23:16, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *'''Support''' [[Tobyk777]] 17, July, 2005 |
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| − | *'''Oppose'''. Among other things, I don't see any mention of Nog's ascension to Nagus and the reforms he was going to make. - [[User:AJHalliwell|AJHalliwell]] 20:35, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :*[[Rom]], not Nog, ascended to Nagus. Where would that go? Society, or Government? And it seems like we'd have to significantly expand either one to accomodate both the previous history of the Nagus and future reforms. Which leads me to think that might be better placed in the Nagus listing with only some slight, not significant, mention here. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 15:32, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *'''Oppose''' I feel the information on society and culture can be expanded. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 15:43, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :: '''Archived'''--[[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] 19:13, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :::'''Oppose'''. Among other things, I don't see any mention of Nog's ascension to Nagus and the reforms he was going to make. --[[User:AJHalliwell|AJHalliwell]] 20:35, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===2nd FA Nomination (09/04/05, failed)=== |
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| − | perfect in every way [[User:BajoranBrouhaha|BajoranBrouhaha]] 09:06, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *'''Oppose'''. It's an extensive article but hardly perfect. I'd personally like to see a bit more on their culture. I don't think that the references are complete either.--[[User:Scimitar|Scimitar]] 00:57, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *'''Oppose''' Yes I am oppsoing this one contrary to popular belief that I support everything. There is no list of appearances. The article has no link to the rules of Aquisition that I can find. The refrences are incomplete. There is no list of Ferangi, or at least a link to another aticle with a list. [[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 02:11, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | **'''Comment''' - Did you read the article? There is at least one link to the Rules, and there is a link to a list of Ferengi (see the People section). And the references are pretty darn near complete, at least from all of the major Ferengi episodes on DS9. I'm sure there are some missing but most likely they are off-hand references in episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi. If they are missing, I'm hoping someone like yourself will put them in. A list of appearances would be good though... [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ***I did read the article completely. I didn't see a link to the rules or to a list a ferangi. I might have glaced over it while reading. Let me also point out that in the comment ;preceeding this one you used the phrase "I'm sure there are some missing" that means that it's incomplete. [[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 00:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ****"that means that it's incomplete." Uh-huh, which is one of my stated reasons for opposing it below. I was only pointing out that two of your reasons were inaccurate. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 03:34, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *****I think that someone went in and revised it. now I count 3 links to the rules. I didn't see any before. [[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 04:30, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | **'''Comment''' - I think this should be removed, based on the fact it was nomiated by a blocked user. --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] 05:35, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ***How can a blocked user nominate something? They're blocked, right? |
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| − | **** Well, that would be because they were blocked after they nominated it because they turned out to be a vandal...also, please remember to sign your comments with <nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>. Thanks, [[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] |
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| − | *Mild '''Oppose'''. I did a lot of work on this page myself but I feel like it's a bit wordy and probably does not capture many references from episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi (though I'm almost positive that all of the major eps are there). I'd feel more comfortable supporting the nomination after some other users had a go-round on the article to make sure there aren't important pieces of info missing. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | **'''Comment'''. You know, even though I have a slight opposition to this article in its current state, I have to wonder how [[Bolian]]s can be a featured article with such relatively little content and almost nothing in depth, and yet Ferengi is not worth it? The Bolian article is almost entirely anectdotal and yet certainly there is more known about the Ferengi, and the article is more complete, than many we've seen as FAs. I'm just starting to wonder if people just don't like the Ferengi. Just a thought/observation. |
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| − | *Mild '''Oppose'''. It is an extensive, well-written and well-researched article, but it just seems... incomplete to me. As Scimitar pointed out, more info on their culture would be nice. And as Gvsualan pointed out... this ''was'' nominated by a now-banned user. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] 02:57, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | [[Rom]], not Nog, ascended to Nagus. Where would that go? Society, or Government? And it seems like we'd have to significantly expand either one to accommodate both the previous history of the Nagus and future reforms. Which leads me to think that might be better placed in the Nagus listing with only some slight, not significant, mention here. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 15:32, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===3rd FA nomination (11/16/05, successful)=== |
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| − | ''Self-nomination/Re-nomination.'' This will be the third nomination for this article. The first time it failed deservedly so, the second time I'm less sure because some objections were far more vague than we've recently allowed or were addressed and fixed. This time, however, it has been through the [[Talk:Ferengi/peerreview|peer review]] process which has lead to more in-depth content, pictures, etc. and feedback from multiple users. I believe it meets all tangible [[Memory Alpha:Featured article criteria|criteria]] for FAs in that it is thorough, complete, well-written and stable. It's a significant species with a lot of content from all four post-TOS series and, to me at least, is informative and entertaining. I submit that unless you just don't like the Ferengi there is very little reason not to support this nomination. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 19:41, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | : '''Support.''' An '''''excellent''''' and wholly comprehensive article. — '''[[User:pd_THOR|<span style="color:#CC0000;">THOR</span>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:pd_THOR|<span style="color:#FF9933;">''=/\=''</span>]]</sup> 21:19, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :'''Question'''. Looks good, but what does "belief in the finite but eternal nature of material accumulation means that you can take it with you" mean? I'm not an expert on Ferengi, or I'd change the wording myself, but that's a contradiction (maybe it was intended to be, but it sounds awkward to me). [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 19:41, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::You know the saying "you can't take it with you"? Well, the Ferengi believe you ''can'' take it with you. That's what hte sentence is trying to say, maybe not as clearly as it could. Feel free to improve. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 00:39, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ''' |
+ | ::::'''Oppose''' I feel the information on society and culture can be expanded. --[[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 15:43, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
| + | ::::: '''Archived''' --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] 19:13, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | I don't share Sloan's concern; that part is fine. However, perhaps we could add some info on how the Ferengi were exaggerated charicatures of human nature and whatnot (I remember one of the writers, I think Robert Hewitt Wolfe, talking about it somewhere). That's why they were "comedic", but on the same note, would it be appropriate to note how unpopular Ferengi-centered episodes were? I wish I'd been more active in MA back when the peer review took place or I'd have brought this point up then, sorry. --[[User:Vedek Dukat|Vedek Dukat]] <sup> [[User talk:Vedek Dukat|<span style="color:red">Talk</span>]] | [[User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes|<span style="color:gold;">Duty Roster</span>]]</sup> 02:26, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | === Renomination {{fana|149979|04 Sept|157473|14 Sept 2005|f}} === |
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| − | :I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to note the general fan dislike in the background section or not, but in general I don't think we do that kind of editorializing. Besides, it would seem to be well-stated just by the lack of attention the nomination of this extensive and thorough article is getting. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 12:36, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | Perfect in every way. --[[User:BajoranBrouhaha|BajoranBrouhaha]] 09:06, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :'''Oppose'''. It's an extensive article but hardly perfect. I'd personally like to see a bit more on their culture. I don't think that the references are complete either. --[[User:Scimitar|Scimitar]] 00:57, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::It's definitely not appropriate to note things like popularity, but I don't know if the lack of attention is because of that. I would say it was from the relative inactivity on MA lately, but Luther Sloan apparently woke people up while this and V'Ger are glanced over. I think it's just easier to complete and vote on something minor like Sloan as opposed to a race with a character who's in every DS9 ep; as for V'Ger, I haven't seen TMP, so dunno. [[User:Weyoun|Weyoun]] 20:42, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | ::'''Oppose''' Yes I am opposing this one contrary to popular belief that I support everything. There is no list of appearances. The article has no link to the rules of Acquisition that I can find. The references are incomplete. There is no list of Ferengi, or at least a link to another article with a list. [[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 02:11, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | *It seems there are a few citations missing in the philosophy section. I'd also like to see an appearence list and a reference list. Otherwise I '''support'''. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 20:52, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :The reference list was deleted by another user so that's probably up to the community to return it or not. What areas of philospophy do you feel need extra citation? [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 23:06, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::The first paragraph, info about the lungs, brain and ribs. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 13:35, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :Ahh, physiology. Cited. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 17:45, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Haha, my bad. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 21:01, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :So is that a support? [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 22:15, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Yup. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 22:40, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :I'll add my '''support''' to this article as well. Yay for the Ferengi! [[{{ns:user}}:Zsingaya|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Zsingaya</span>]] <sup> [[User talk:Zsingaya|''Talk'']]</sup> 22:55, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :::'''Comment''' - Did you read the article? There is at least one link to the Rules, and there is a link to a list of Ferengi (see the People section). And the references are pretty darn near complete, at least from all of the major Ferengi episodes on DS9. I'm sure there are some missing but most likely they are off-hand references in episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi. If they are missing, I'm hoping someone like yourself will put them in. A list of appearances would be good though... --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | '''Support''' and my hat's off to Logan for bugging us (and I mean that in a positive, persistent way, not annoying) all into voting since I think people don't look at this page often enough. Good job. --[[User:Vedek Dukat|Vedek Dukat]] <sup> [[User talk:Vedek Dukat|<span style="color:red">Talk</span>]] | [[MemoryAlpha:User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes|<span style="color:gold;">Duty Roster</span>]]</sup> 23:07, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ---- |
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| − | Nomination process is over. Article has been featured since 2005. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] |
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| + | ::I did read the article completely. I didn't see a link to the rules or to a list a ferengi. I might have glanced over it while reading. Let me also point out that in the comment ;preceding this one you used the phrase "I'm sure there are some missing" that means that it's incomplete. --[[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 00:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | === "Crossdressing" redirection === |
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| − | :''Moved from [[User talk:Sulfur]]...'' |
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| − | I'm confused by your closure of the debate [[Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion/Crossdressing]]. The results of the discussion were inconclusive: 1 against, 1 for, 1 neutral. One of the reasons you gave for merger — that it "was something we never really saw" — cannot be supported by viewing {{DS9|Rules of Acquisition|Profit and Lace}}. As the discussion and article made clear, it was depicted in ''great'' detail in these episodes. Then, you merged into an article that was never discussed as a possible new home. The debate suggested it should go to [[Ferengi history]]; you redirected to [[Ferengi]]. If we had to merge at all, [[Ferengi history]] would certainly have been more appropriate than [[Ferengi]], because its relevance is as an historical milestone, rather than a cultural trait. |
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| + | :::"that means that it's incomplete." Uh-huh, which is one of my stated reasons for opposing it below. I was only pointing out that two of your reasons were inaccurate. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 03:34, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | Moreover, your closure here seems at odds with your decision on the very similar [[Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion/Bible (Omega IV)]] debate. [[Bible (Omega IV)]] is another thing not mentioned specifically by a script, the debate which followed reached no clear consensus, but there, you closed as "keep". |
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| + | ::I think that someone went in and revised it. now I count 3 links to the rules. I didn't see any before. --[[User:Tobyk777|Tobyk777]] 04:30, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | I quite understand that the deletion process isn't a democratic process, but am naturally curious as to why two similar situations produced quite opposite results. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 07:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :I second his curiosity. The entire point of having the debates over the possibility of deletion, or merging is to find a consensus. I'm not saying any decision was wrong, but it would seem strange to prematurely end discussion.[[User:Hossrex|Hossrex]] 10:22, 11 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::'''Comment''' - I think this should be removed, based on the fact it was nomiated by a blocked user. --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] 05:35, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Since this is not really a personal discussion about Sulfur, I'm sure he will move this to a more appropriate place later - meanwhile, a point to consider is that the outcome of that deletion discussion was that no deletion actually occured. If, for whatever possible reasons that I ''really'' don't want to think about, someone is going to search for "crossdressing" on a Star Trek wiki, he will still be taken to some info about it. Another point is that, among the bazillion of articles that exist and sometimes get deleted, the one initially created by an identified troublemaker is still used to make more trouble... food for thought. -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 10:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | :: How can a blocked user nominate something? They're blocked, right? {{unsigned|Tobyk777}} |
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| − | :::In quick response (brief because I'm sick as a dog right now): |
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| − | :::1) Crossdressing was originally created by a sock puppet that had a history of causing trouble. The Omega IV bible was not. |
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| − | :::2) The new text in the crossdressing page had merit. But at "crossdressing"? Not really... because that's not what it was strictly speaking. Ferengi women did ''not'' wear clothes at all, so it wasn't "crossdressing". It was "''dressing''". Period. |
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| − | :::3) I chose this article ([[Ferengi]]) over the history one because the history one is a list of dates with brief notes on each date. This article had a segment that was much better suited to the amount of text in question (~2 paragraphs or so), and it really fit well into the section in question ("the role of women in Ferengi society"). |
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| − | :::Sometimes you hare to make arbitrary situations. I looked at the history page, and there was no way that such a detailed amount of text was going to go there. If it were moved there, the 2+ paragraphs would've been boiled down to a sentence or two. |
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| − | :::Also, neither discussion was prematurely ended. Both had been going on for quite a length of time, and both had gotten into the "I say yes", "I say no". Neither side was going to convince the other, and with delays that long, nobody else was going to stick their noses in and disturb the status quo. As such, we would've either left them sitting there in the PfD queue forever, or arbitrarily ended the discussions in both cases. |
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| − | :::I know that these answers won't make everyone happy, but sometimes that's not the most important thing. Hope that this helps. -- [[User:Sulfur|Sulfur]] 11:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::Well, that would be because they were blocked after they nominated it because they turned out to be a vandal... --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan del Beccio]] |
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| − | ::::Sounds reasonable. :) (edited because I didn't realize my computer mysteriously logged me out)[[User:Hossrex|Hossrex]] 12:11, 11 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::Thanks very much for your response, especially considering it sounds as if it was delivered under difficult circumstances. I certainly can better appreciate why this text is now at this article rather than [[Ferengi history]]. Still, the "troublesome sock puppet created, so therefore it's not a reasonable topic" explanation for why this article failed to stand on its own seems tenuous to me. Even sock puppets occasionally share kernels of truth. More importantly, I do think people were so willing to distance themselves from the "disagreeable" topic (or possibly simply have a disdain for Ferengi episodes) that they didn't really stop to examine what information was being given to them onscreen. This business of "crossdressing being impossible in a society where women don't wear clothes" really holds little weight in the context of the episodes. In ROA, the female Pel is dressing as a man, who do wear clothes, so that's clearly cross-dressing in the most literal sense of the term. In PAL, "Lumba" was dressing legally, under Zek's new reforms. He believed himself the leader of a government-in-exile, and "Lumba" was enjoying the protection of that government. Therefore, the very narrowest sense of cross-dressing was allowed in this episode as it was in ROA. |
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| + | :::Mild '''Oppose'''. I did a lot of work on this page myself but I feel like it's a bit wordy and probably does not capture many references from episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi (though I'm almost positive that all of the major eps are there). I'd feel more comfortable supporting the nomination after some other users had a go-round on the article to make sure there aren't important pieces of info missing. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::Of course, the bigger point is that cross-dressing doesn't just refer to clothing, but the broader attempt to impersonate the opposite gender. Thus, the changing of physical appearance and mannerisms is an act of cross-dressing as much as a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a tie. |
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| + | :::::'''Comment'''. You know, even though I have a slight opposition to this article in its current state, I have to wonder how [[Bolian]]s can be a featured article with such relatively little content and almost nothing in depth, and yet Ferengi is not worth it? The Bolian article is almost entirely anecdotal and yet certainly there is more known about the Ferengi, and the article is more complete, than many we've seen as FAs. I'm just starting to wonder if people just don't like the Ferengi. Just a thought/observation. |
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| − | ::::::As for why someone on MA might search for the term "cross-dressing", I suppose I can only offer [[IDIC]] as a reasonable rationale. ''Star Trek'' has always attracted a diverse fan base. I suppose I worry that if someone is genuinely looking for cross-dressing in ''Star Trek'', they'll be redirected to the top of an article that apparently has nothing to do with cross-dressing. Neither it, nor the proposed one to [[Ferengi history]], make for a particularly user-friendly redirect. |
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| + | :::::: Mild '''Oppose'''. It is an extensive, well-written and well-researched article, but it just seems... incomplete to me. As Scimitar pointed out, more info on their culture would be nice. And as Gvsualan pointed out... this ''was'' nominated by a now-banned user. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] 02:57, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ::::::The way I see it, cross-dressing is a milestone to one of the key races of the [[Alpha Quadrant]], and deserves the same consideration as other un-named-in-production articles like [[First Battle of Deep Space 9]], [[Federation-Dominion Cold War]], and the absolutely mis-named article, [[Raid on San Francisco]]—much less the myriad articles which are based solely on a production graphic and do little more than say that the subject in question was present on the production graphic ([[Death in Arizona]] to name but one). |
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| + | === Renomination {{fana|188842|16 Nov|194739|30 Nov 2005|s}} === |
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| − | ::::::Again, I know the deletion process isn't a democracy, and I also know that you were acting in good faith. I hope you don't take offense to my efforts to vigorously defend a little article I would never have considered creating. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 09:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | ''Self-nomination/Re-nomination.'' This will be the third nomination for this article. The first time it failed deservedly so, the second time I'm less sure because some objections were far more vague than we've recently allowed or were addressed and fixed. This time, however, it has been through the [[#Peer review]] process which has lead to more in-depth content, pictures, etc. and feedback from multiple users. I believe it meets all tangible [[Memory Alpha:Featured article criteria|criteria]] for FAs in that it is thorough, complete, well-written and stable. It's a significant species with a lot of content from all four post-TOS series and, to me at least, is informative and entertaining. I submit that unless you just don't like the Ferengi there is very little reason not to support this nomination. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 19:41, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | : '''Support.''' An '''''excellent''''' and wholly comprehensive article. -— '''[[User:pd_THOR|<span style="color:#CC0000;">THOR</span>]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:pd_THOR|<span style="color:#FF9933;">''=/\=''</span>]]</sup> 21:19, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | === Present Tense === |
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| − | Almost this entire article is written in the present tense. I've noticed several other articles are written in the past tense (which seems to make more sense to me). Does anyone know if there are any rules about this? |
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| + | ::'''Question'''. Looks good, but what does "belief in the finite but eternal nature of material accumulation means that you can take it with you" mean? I'm not an expert on Ferengi, or I'd change the wording myself, but that's a contradiction (maybe it was intended to be, but it sounds awkward to me). --[[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 19:41, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | [[User:Suck My Wake|Suck My Wake]] 03:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | You know the saying "you can't take it with you"? Well, the Ferengi believe you ''can'' take it with you. That's what the sentence is trying to say, maybe not as clearly as it could. Feel free to improve. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 00:39, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :Yeah, it should be in past tense. See [[Memory Alpha:POV]]. – [[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] 05:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | :::'''Support'''. --[[User:Weyoun|Weyoun]] 05:05, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::I don't share Sloan's concern; that part is fine. However, perhaps we could add some info on how the Ferengi were exaggerated caricatures of Human nature and whatnot (I remember one of the writers, I think Robert Hewitt Wolfe, talking about it somewhere). That's why they were "comedic", but on the same note, would it be appropriate to note how unpopular Ferengi-centered episodes were? I wish I'd been more active in MA back when the peer review took place or I'd have brought this point up then, sorry. --[[User:Vedek Dukat|Vedek Dukat]] <sup> [[User talk:Vedek Dukat|<span style="color:red">Talk</span>]] | [[User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes|<span style="color:gold;">Duty Roster</span>]]</sup> 02:26, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Ferengi Physiology== |
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| − | ===On Ferenginar, we learn about the Continuum while we still have our first set of ears=== |
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| + | I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to note the general fan dislike in the background section or not, but in general I don't think we do that kind of editorializing. Besides, it would seem to be well-stated just by the lack of attention the nomination of this extensive and thorough article is getting. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 12:36, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | Hey, I'm wondering what we should make of Nog's line in [[Treachery, Faith and the Great River]] he says ''on Ferenginar we learn about the [[Great Material Continuum]] before we get our first set of ears''. I know it sounds like it might be something like human teeth, but what do we really '''know''' from this statement? [[User:Tyrant|Tyrant]] 23:09, 31 Jan 2005 (CET) |
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| − | : Seems to me that he is referring to puberty, or the Ferengi equivalent. The fact that they shed their ears like antlers seems a bit "out there", if I am getting what you are ''implying''. --[[User:Gvsualan|Gvsualan]] 01:42, 1 Feb 2005 (CET) |
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| + | :::::It's definitely not appropriate to note things like popularity, but I don't know if the lack of attention is because of that. I would say it was from the relative inactivity on MA lately, but Luther Sloan apparently woke people up while this and V'Ger are glanced over. I think it's just easier to complete and vote on something minor like Sloan as opposed to a race with a character who's in every DS9 ep; as for V'Ger, I haven't seen TMP, so dunno. --[[User:Weyoun|Weyoun]] 20:42, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | I misquoted that. It was; ''On Ferenginar, we learn about the Continuum while we still have our first set of ears'' Not sure if we can guess it is puberty, but it seems we should be able to assume they have at least two sets of ears in a lifetime. [[User:Tyrant|Tyrant]] 01:47, 1 Feb 2005 (CET) |
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| + | ::::::It seems there are a few citations missing in the philosophy section. I'd also like to see an appearance list and a reference list. Otherwise I '''support'''. --[[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 20:52, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :Without taking things too ''literally'', when they should be taken ''figuratively'', if you consider the amount of sexual identification the Ferengi associate with their ears, this very much sounds like, in ''their terminology'', the definition of pre-pubescence. --[[User:Gvsualan|Gvsualan]] 19:27, 1 Feb 2005 (CET) |
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| + | The reference list was deleted by another user so that's probably up to the community to return it or not. What areas of philosophy do you feel need extra citation? --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 23:06, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :I disagree. I didn't take anything sexual from the statement, to me it sounded very much like the way we would reference teeth. And I worry that if we start applying figurative or symbolic meaning to statements we risk trying to create canon and not simply recording it. I think both of us have made our positions known, anyone else have a take on this? [[User:Tyrant|Tyrant]] 19:36, 1 Feb 2005 (CET)Tyrant |
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| − | :: |
+ | ::::::The first paragraph, info about the lungs, brain and ribs. --[[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 13:35, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
| + | Ahh, physiology. Cited. --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 17:45, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | Ease up on the paranoia, puberty usually means a state of sexual development. I thought you were saying that Nog's statement was refering to puberty, now I have no idea what you mean. And I know the concept of their ears falling off may seem a little alien, but this is science fiction, and it is no more 'out there' then people ageing backwards or deevolving into spiders. [[User:Tyrant|Tyrant]] 23:32, 1 Feb 2005 (CET)Tyrant |
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| + | ::::::Haha, my bad. --[[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 21:01, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | :::Hmmm, it can obviously be interpreted in the two aforementionen ways.. Yet, I believe that is is more realistic to assume that Nog is referring to phases of development.. But why would he then reder to it as the "first set"? We shouldn't infer what we can not possibly know, but this is still a good reference as long as it is used with caution... ([[User:Toddas|Toddas]] 23:38, 1 Feb 2005 (CET)) |
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| + | So is that a support? --[[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 22:15, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | Wouldn't taking this anyway but literally be an application of our own assumptions? [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 13:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :Come to think of it, I think this might be a case of [[Memory Alpha:Canon policy#Tolerance in Valid Resources|"archivist's assessment of the trustworthiness of the character who is the source of the resource"]]? [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 23:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| + | ::::::Yup. --[[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 22:40, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Heart Rate=== |
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| − | That's a nice bit of info, but I just watched that episode the other night and there wasn't a reference there. Did it come from script or on-screen? If the former maybe it belongs as a background note in that section? [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 14:43, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :::::::I'll add my '''support''' to this article as well. Yay for the Ferengi! --[[{{ns:user}}:Zsingaya|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Zsingaya</span>]] <sup> [[User talk:Zsingaya|''Talk'']]</sup> 22:55, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Readable by Betazoids?=== |
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| − | i have an issue about ferengi phisiology. on this page it is stated as fact that betazoids cannot read ferengi. (ds9: the forsaken) but i have contradictory evidence from an earlier source... |
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| − | the episode (tng: the battle) has troi reading daimon bok when they first make visual contact, she goes so far as to make them cut the transmission to alert picard to this fact. |
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| − | :But according to TNG the Trill are also... well, I think we all know THAT story. :) --[[User:Broik|Broik]] 23:45, 10 Jan 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | ::The ip user's observation is legitimate and we must account for the inconsistency. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 13:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :::A simple background note would suffice, I think, as is done on the Trill page. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 01:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::'''Support''' and my hat's off to Logan for bugging us (and I mean that in a positive, persistent way, not annoying) all into voting since I think people don't look at this page often enough. Good job. --[[User:Vedek Dukat|Vedek Dukat]] <sup> [[User talk:Vedek Dukat|<span style="color:red">Talk</span>]] | [[MemoryAlpha:User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes|<span style="color:gold;">Duty Roster</span>]]</sup> 23:07, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Multiple Hearts.=== |
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| − | In the teaser for DS9 "Through the Looking Glass, when sisko takes away "Morns" voles, Quark says "It'll break his hearts. |
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| − | :[[Morn]] isn't a Ferengi. He is a [[Lurian]]. That article already talks about the mutliple hearts. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup> [[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span></sup>]] 03:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::::::Nomination process is over. Article has been featured since 2005. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] |
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| − | === Ferengi living a century === |
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| + | === Review {{fara|1715303|08 May|1724816|26 June 2015|u}} === |
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| − | Considering [http://memory-alpha.org/en/index.php?title=Ferengi&curid=3913&diff=492093&oldid=484936 this], is it possible she was exaggerating? --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 06:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | + | A still excellent article that deserves to remain an FA. This one is extremely detailed and has a tremendous amount of background information. --| [[User:TrekFan|TrekFan]] <sup>[[User Talk:TrekFan|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Open a channel</span>]]</sup> 23:16, May 8, 2015 (UTC) |
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| + | *'''Support'''. - {{User:Archduk3/Sig/nature}} 08:08, June 1, 2015 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Hello. First, I was the previous editor of that bit. I've re-edited the post to reflect the somewhat ambiguous nature of Ishka's comment. However, regarding the possibility of her exaggerating, while it may be possible, there's no reason to believe that she wasn't being literal. Besides, it seems like a stretch that someone would exaggerate their age in that context, especially someone that just received cosmetic treatment to seem younger. I could swear that there's more evidence of a longer Ferengi lifespan, so if I do find it I'll update then. --[[User:Wolff359|Wolff359]] 07:33, 9 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | *'''Support'''. - A typical Defiant article, thorough to a fault, how not to uphold FA status...--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 05:00, June 7, 2015 (UTC) |
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| + | *'''Support'''. [[User:ThomasHL|Tom]] ([[User talk:ThomasHL|talk]]) 12:26, June 8, 2015 (UTC) |
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| − | == |
+ | == Hew-mon or Hew-mahn? == |
| + | It sounds more like the latter. It doesn't sound like an "o". [[User:Avengah|Avengah]] 23:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | The article says that there are several episodes where troi reads ferengi minds. i don't doubt this, but the episodes should be listed. right now it kind of reminds me of the line "studies say... |
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| + | :On the startrek site I always see it referenced as hew-''mon'' so I tend to think that was the intended spelling. Unless a script states otherwise. --[[User:Morder|Morder]] 00:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | :"Studies say that people on memory alpha should learn to put ~~ at the end of their posts. LOL. I totally agree the article needs improvement here. [[User:Federation|Federation]] 08:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | ::To write it the way it sounds, it would be "humàn". I'll bet that scripts just have "human" and everybody knows how a Ferengi character is supposed to pronounce it. Spoken accents aren't normally phonologized in scripts, instead, directors or coaches just tell the actor how to say something with an accent. [[User:TribbleFurSuit|TribbleFurSuit]] 00:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | ::: Two script examples: "Hu-man" {{e|The Last Outpost}} "Hew-man" ({{e|The Siege}}. --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan]] 04:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | ::Well, anyway, it '''does''' sound like a short O. It sounds like the O in "off" or in "pot" or in "don". It doesn't sound like "hew-mone" with a long O, so, I think we're fine the way we are. If we write it the way those scripts do, it doesn't help the reader perceive the sound. --[[User:TribbleFurSuit|TribbleFurSuit]] 16:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| + | == alcohol == |
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| − | :Although this is not the episode notation requested, I think it's possible that Troi mistook her own ''Human intuition'' for Betazoid telepathy. This could repair the potential inconsistency nicely. |
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| − | |||
| − | === alcohol === |
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I seem to remember a TNG episode that discussed the fact that Ferengi |
I seem to remember a TNG episode that discussed the fact that Ferengi |
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would serve alcohol to humans during trade negotiations and get them |
would serve alcohol to humans during trade negotiations and get them |
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| Line 156: | Line 103: | ||
::I do recall them inventing synthehol. The reference to getting other people drunk was mentioned I think in [[Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine%2C Volume 3]] or [[Millennium]]. – [[User:Morder|Morder]] 01:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC) |
::I do recall them inventing synthehol. The reference to getting other people drunk was mentioned I think in [[Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine%2C Volume 3]] or [[Millennium]]. – [[User:Morder|Morder]] 01:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | == Role of Women == |
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| − | ==Ferengi Culture and Values== |
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| + | :''Because of this Ferengi males were often very protective and loving of their mothers, and this was even reflected in the [[Rules of Acquisition]], Rule 31 was "Never make Fun of a Ferengi's Mother" ({{DS9|The Siege}}'' |
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| − | ===Rom as Nagus=== |
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| − | There's been mention that we should include something about the changes to Ferengi culture after Rom took over as Nagus, but I'm having a hard time finding anything concrete on that. What did Ishka and Zek say, and how did Rom respond, on his promotion to Nagus? Was it stated what sort of reforms they expected him to enact or are we just speculating? [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 22:47, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | This short bit was added to the section about the women's role recently, has anyone got anything about it? I haven't seen anything for it for the typical Ferengi. Rom and Quark were not your typical Ferengi (mainly Rom, the one who showed affection for his mother). – [[User:Fadm tyler|Fadm tyler]] 23:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC) |
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| − | :IIRC, Zek had already initiated reforms on Ferenginar. If you will remember, Quark and Brunt are complaining about taxes on Ferenginar. [[User:Mainphramephreak|Willie]] 09:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | :It might be worth mentioning this rule in that portion of the article, but I think its a stretch to tie it to the way they raise their kids.--[[User:31dot|31dot]] 23:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Zek's reforms were discussed in conversations between Quark & Brunt and between Quark & Rom. Zek instituted a balance of powers into the Ferengi government via a Congress, rendering the Ferengi government a Democracy. Rom would not be as powerful as Zek had been due to new checks and balances. In addition, children were no longer taught the Rules of Aquisition. Business operators could no longer demand sexual favors from their employees. Monopolies were made illegal. New income taxes paid for wage subsidies for the poor and retirement benifits for the elderly. Zek introduced legislation to stop the dumping of industrial waste, and encouraged the preservation of animals and the natural habitat. Some sort of health care was hinted at but never fully discussed on-screen. |
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| − | ::There was also a shift in Ferengi beliefs. Over 40% of the population no longer believed they had to buy their way into the Divine Treasury. This all came from {{DS9|The Dogs of War}} |
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| − | ::Rom didn't really do anything as Nagus in canon except return Quark's bar to him. |
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| + | == Headdresses == |
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| − | ::[[User:Suck My Wake|Suck My Wake]] 03:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | Is there significance in how Quark does not wear one, but his brother (and his brother's son) do (in DS9)? [[User:Yleron|Yleron]] 19:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC) |
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| + | :Yes, because Quark's headpiece doesn't have a slit down the back. — [[User:Morder|Morder]] ([[User talk:Morder|talk]]) 19:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC) |
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| + | == Removed notes == |
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| − | ===Anti-Jewish???=== |
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| + | I removed the following speculation: |
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| − | Why anti-Jewish? [[User:Zsingaya|zsingaya]] 08:18, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | * ''The [[rain]]y climate of the Ferengi [[homeworld]] and the low-order invertebrates constituting Ferengi cuisine would seem to suggest a species that evolved as foragers living close to the ground.'' |
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| − | *The link someone posted there specifically says jewish, not semites [[User:BajoranBrouhaha|BajoranBrouhaha]] |
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| + | And the following note which is a bit [[MA:NIT|nitpickish]]/opinonated: |
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| − | But... you posted it! Where in either Canon Star Trek, or in production notes, or even in the Star Trek community, does it say specifically "anti-jewish"? Maybe when you get back from being banned, you can answer this :) [[User:Zsingaya|zsingaya]] 22:16, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | *''Interestingly, the Ferengi did not seem to make much use of modern technology to straighten their teeth.'' |
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| + | – [[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] 07:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC) |
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| − | :I was wondering the same thing. It's either an interpretation of a very, very small group of people or a joke. There's the stereotypical "Jewish are good with money" thing, and I guess somebody decided to compare the profit-seeking Ferengi to the Jewish and then saw it as an attack against Jews. It's stupid, if you ask me, and I personally don't think it belongs here, regardless of whether it's an honest interpretation or someone's bad idea of a joke. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] 00:02, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| − | * Remove it. The person who posted it was a self-admitted member of [[Wikipedia:GNAA]], and many of his posts were "soft-vandalism". He repeated posted at N* just so it would show up repeatedly on the Recent Changes page, and posted smoething about Pretzels with George Bush and Star Trke. Despite that, I wouldn't say its a Large minority that believe this, I know I've never even heard of it. And reading the article on that page, it can't be taken seriously. (PS: The Ferengi were suspected of Canibalism!?) -[[User:AJHalliwell|AJHalliwell]] 00:13, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | == troi sensing emotion when she shouldnt be able to == |
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| − | :*Agreed. It has been removed. --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] 00:29, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | isnt it possible when she says she senses something, shes refering not to her telepathic abilities, but her above average observational skils due to being a counselor? ie: like how cops are better at reading deception? {{unsigned|Neotechni}} |
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| − | ::I ran into this 'Ferengi as Jewish sterotype' idea again since seeing it here. Anyone know if there is an academic basis to this assertion? If so it should be noted on the [[Judaism]] page. If it turns out lack any legitimate source we should leave it out as it would not only be hearsay, but probably be more trouble then it can possibly be worth. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 01:36, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | :I really doubt that Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman, both born Jewish would try to put in such a hurtful slur, especially considering the Ferengi were originally concieved to be the ''new enemy'' to replace the klingons - only to be deemed ''not scary enough'' and replaced by the borg. [[User:Jaz|Jaz]] <sup> [[User talk:Jaz|talk]] | [[User:Jaz/Novels|<span style="color:#9900FF;">novels</span></sup>]] 03:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | :::I really doubt that Gene Roddenberry was born Jewish, religiously or ethnically. What's the evidence? He was raised as a Southern Baptist, as Wikipedia states.[[User:Toddsschneider|Toddsschneider]] 15:59, 24 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| + | :Not really, I believe the difference are between thought and emotion. Troi can sense emotional states, but not thoughts. Perhaps the show pictures emotions as something that is not coming from the brain. Maybe originating there, but not being fully realised there. [[Special:Contributions/46.5.165.122|46.5.165.122]] 11:26, November 16, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Yeah, I had originally dismissed it, but when it popped up again I got to wondering where it was coming from and if it could hold water. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 03:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| + | == Judaism Compared to Ferengi == |
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| − | I personally seem them more as a jab at American capitalism. --[[User:207.215.78.126|207.215.78.126]] 02:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| + | Well wikipedia talks about that subject but why doesnt the 'official star trek wiki'? {{unsigned-anon|72.78.108.238}} |
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| − | === Ferengi Philosophy === |
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| − | :''Moved from [[Memory Alpha:Ten Forward]]'' |
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| − | This page was deleted recently (though it still has some links to it) and I was thinking of re-adding it but wanted to post here first since it was deleted once already. |
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| + | :If there is some [[MA:CYS|citation]] to the effect that this is what the producers intended, then yes, we would discuss it. But I have never found such a claim. As noted on the page, Ferengi were intended a spoof of modern humans and greed generally.–[[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] <small><sup>( [[User talk:Cleanse|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Cleanse|contribs]] )</sup></small> 00:38, August 17, 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | I've been re-watching a lot of Ferengi episodes lately and while the last article was a one-sentence summary (and I was one of the ones who voted to delete), I do feel there is enough to expand the article and make it worth having its own page. There's enough material on Ferengi ethics, business practices, and social philosophy that doesn't easily fit into any other page but currently lacks reference in most Ferengi areas. |
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| + | ::Well i have seen it on wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi#Allegations_of_parodying_Judaism| here] and it seems to have citations, i haven't read the citations thoroughly, but I think it is good enough. _Whovian_Trek_ 15:29, August 17, 2011 (UTC)[[User:WhovianTrek|WhovianTrek]] |
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| − | Like I said, a head's up more than anything but since it was deleted once I thought I should mention it. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 20:59, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :::That article does mention the book [[Religions of Star Trek]], but I believe it was that author's own opinion and not a wideley held belief that they parodied the Jewish people. However, since it has a cite, I believe a note on it can be added, just be careful of the wording so as not to suggest they were created with that in mind because I don't think they were. --| [[User:TrekFan|TrekFan]] <sup>[[User Talk:TrekFan|<span style="color:#00FF00;">Open a channel</span>]]</sup> 15:34, August 17, 2011 (UTC) |
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| + | == Ferengi Hearts?? == |
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| − | :A compromise: Create [[Ferengi philosophy]] as a redirect to [[Ferengi]] and start a section '''Ferengi philosophy''' there. We can always move the content if it is enough to deserve its own article. -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 21:10, 3 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | In the teaser of one of the Season 3 DS9 episodes after hearing that the vols him and rom have will be confiscating he says that "This will break Rom's hearts" which leads me to believe that like The Doctor (from Doctor Who) they have dual(or maybe more) hearts... is there any evidence to the contrary or to confirm this?? {{Unsigned-anon|216.249.220.197}} |
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| − | :I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Highwind. The Ferengi article covers religious beliefs, but is a bit light on temporal beliefs and practices. A philosophy section should be erected at once! --[[User:Werideatdusk|Werideatdusk]] 08:18, 7 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | :You misheard. He actually says it'll break Morn's hearts. Which could mean that Lurian's have two hearts. In the TNG episode [[Suspicions (episode)|Suspicions]] Dr Crusher performs an autopsy on [[Reyga]] and is later shown looking at the results the image on her screen shows just the one heart.[[User:Lt.Lovett|Lt.Lovett]] ([[User talk:Lt.Lovett|talk]]) 09:57, September 13, 2013 (UTC) |
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| + | == inspiration for the ferengi == |
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| − | :I agress make it a re-direct and reate the section in the Ferrengi article atleast for now--[[User:Kahless|Kahless]] 18:44, 11 Aug 2005 (UTC) |
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| + | Have they ever said who or what the inspiration for the Ferengi were? Like a particular culture, country, society...Republicans? It would be interesting to include that information in the main article if it can be cited. I noticed a section like that is missing and wasnt sure if it was because there just is no information available in that regard. [[User:Distantlycharmed|Distantlycharmed]] 05:26, May 3, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | === Comparison to the Dominion? === |
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| + | :Republicans? Really? I'm glad nobody has added such a ridiculous attempt at political debate to an article about Star Trek. I see somebody wanted to mention "the jews" up above, but that too doesn't pass bullshit tests. --[[Special:Contributions/139.78.253.251|139.78.253.251]] 14:56, September 27, 2012 (UTC) |
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| + | ::William Shatner once said on 'So Graham Norton' he thought the Ferengi were based on the British, although he said this after relating a negative incident he'd had with autograph hunters earlier that day, and it was a very light hearted show.[[User:Lt.Lovett|Lt.Lovett]] ([[User talk:Lt.Lovett|talk]]) 13:32, August 30, 2013 (UTC) |
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| + | Actually Ira Stephen Behr (spelling?) said the Ferengi are the most Human of all species - they have all the attributes we have - including the greed. The fact that they are greedy is probably part of the deal and especially comedy. They are so disgustingly greedy it is comedic, just like republicans. Anyway i saw that comment in one of the sections about Ferengi on here or maybe Quark or maybe it was an episode on the Ferengi. I forgot. [[User:Distantlycharmed|Distantlycharmed]] ([[User talk:Distantlycharmed|talk]]) 16:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC) |
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| + | Clearly, given the strong regulatory role of the FCA and the widespread bribery of government officials, it is not a free market capitalist society. If anything, it's ''Fascist'' without the militarism: the government doesn't own the means of production but has quite strong controls over it. |
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| − | As much as the Ferengi were supposed to be a nasty badguy, with an economic driven society, and a definate war capacity (how else could they be regarded as dangerous; I think Picard said they take no prisoners in "Farpoint"), am I the only one that thinks the Dominion was developed more as "This is what we originally had in mind as the Ferengi bad guy"? |
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| + | == Synthehol == |
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| − | Equally, having just recently rewatched the first Ferengi episode ("Tkon"), it looks like the first half (on the spaceships) had a very different approach to the Ferengi than the second half (on planet, where even Riker did not regard them as a serious threat). I saw from the episode info that there is only one director, but it really seems like that episode was done by two different people. |
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| − | --[[User:Keybounce|Keybounce]] 10:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | :If so, then what they changed was the Ferengi's mercenary direction (at best) when they fight to the Nazistic, "new order of the [[Founder|master race]]" tendancies of the Dominion. The latter, as nearly always, the more disturbing and effective. -- [[User:ChrisK|ChrisK]] 00:58, 21 July 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | This article implies that synthehol is a Ferengi invention, but that isn't mentioned in the article about Synthehol. I didn't even know that humans had contact with the Ferengi as long as synthehol existed. (ignoring Enterprise for a moment) |
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| − | ::The writers originally intended the Ferengi to be the "big enemy" of TNG, like the Klingons had been in TOS, but the audience just didn't find it believeable (for example, their behaviour in "The Last Outpost", or even "The Battle", was hardly terrifying). When this failed, they had to invent new enemies, like the Borg, or being back old ones, like the Romulans, or eventually in DS9, the Dominion. |
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| + | If it was mentioned in the DS9 episodes referenced, are we sure it's meant to be taken literally?--[[Special:Contributions/139.78.253.251|139.78.253.251]] |
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| + | :Humans wouldn't have to know the Ferengi in order to be given (or told how to make) their products, if done through intermediaries(The Federation knows a species who knows the Ferengi). Our policy is to assume that characters are speaking truthfully unless proven otherwise. [[User:31dot|31dot]] ([[User talk:31dot|talk]]) 15:06, September 27, 2012 (UTC) |
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| − | ::I am also not sure I would compare the Founders to the "master race" philosophy of the Nazis. The goal of the Founders was to bring order to the universe, and rule other races only to protect themselves from them. They did not have a goal of killing everything they felt to be below them, just bringing order to it. The Nazis, on the other hand, felt that everything lower needed to eventually be exterminated. It was not about bringing order, it was closer to eugenics (although not the same as eugenics). --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup> [[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span></sup>]] 01:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | ==Crony Capitalism== |
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| − | == What's that headdress thing? == |
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| + | This text was added to the introductory paragraph of the article: |
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| − | === Head thingies === |
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| + | :''However, it was far from a free market—the [[Ferengi Commerce Authority]] had enormous regulatory powers and the right to suspend business rights and confiscate private property, and bribery of government officials was a way to get ahead. Thus the Ferengi society was closer to ‘crony capitalism’ and a mixed economy than a free market.'' |
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| + | There are two major issues with this text: |
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| + | # "Crony capitalism" was never used in canon |
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| + | # The rest of the blurb, especially starting with the "however" lines it up to be somewhat nitpickish. |
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| + | This could possibly be rewritten to be background information, but comes across like original research (the "thus" portion suggests that) than anything else right now. -- [[User:Sulfur|sulfur]] ([[User talk:Sulfur|talk]]) 16:09, July 14, 2014 (UTC) |
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| + | ::Excuse me, the article now read, "Ferengi civilization was built on the ideals of free enterprise, where earning profit was the sole meaningful goal in life, superseding all other endeavors." This is manifestly false, since it is NOT "free enterprise" if the government led by the Nagus can use force to shut down business, confiscate property, forbid free associations (including unions). It might be "original research" to claim that "the Ferengi are a typical leftist caricature of capitalism" (as one Randian does [http://angel14.com/2012/02/10/ferengi-strawmen-capitalism/ The Ferengi – the ultimate strawmen of capitalism], but not to claim that it really is crony capitalism (and indeed fascism given the power of the government) rather than a free market. Another article [http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/science-fiction-and-economic-fiction Science Fiction and Economic Fiction] points out: |
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| − | I skimmed the article looking for info on the thing they wrap behind their heads. 1) Did I missi the info? 2) If not, does anyone know anything about these (what they are called, their purpose if any, why Nog was allowed to wear it when he joined Starfleet). Thanks!--[[User:DannyBoy7783|DannyBoy7783]] 01:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | :::In addition to having the Ferengi costume look clownish and filling Ferengi mouths with sharp, ugly teeth, Star Trek writers have composed a set of strictures that the Ferengi allegedly follow. Called “The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition,” these 286 pieces of allegedly capitalist wisdom are mostly absurd. Consider: |
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| − | I think they are called headdresses, I don't know if that's cannon. Nog is allowed to wear one for the same reason Worf is allowed to wear his baldric. This all begs the question of why Riker and Picard jump on Ro and Tuvok jumps on Gerron about their earrings. It seems to me that Nog's headdress and Worf's baldric are both cultural items, not normally found on your average Starfleet officer. If this is true, then why would Bajorans not be allowed to wear something that is culturally significant to them. Just my two slips. P.S. Will post on Bajoran's page as well.[[User:Mainphramephreak|Willie]] 09:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC) |
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| + | Rule #1: “Once you have their money … never give it back.” Any businessperson who refused to return money to a dissatisfied customer would not be in business for long. Competitors more accommodating to consumers would outcompete such ignoramuses. |
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| − | |||
| + | Rule #2: “Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity” and Rule #21: “Never place friendship above profit.” No doubt a few capitalists are sociopathic in this way—just as, no doubt, so too are a few politicians. But how many businesspeople do you know who would wittingly sacrifice their families’ and their friends’ best interests even for the smallest economic gain? |
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| − | ===Head-dress=== |
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| + | Rule #27: “There’s nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.” Really now. Anyone who knows anything about capitalist reality knows that dishonest businesspeople eventually are caught—not so much by the law but rather by consumers who prefer to deal with honest businesspeople. Dishonest business dealings are a sure recipe for business failure. |
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| − | Does anyone know what the name of the head-dress that wraps around the back of Ferengis heads (all TNG Ferengi had them I think) which Quark does not wear? What is it purpose? Is it mentioned in this article? [[User:Federation|Federation]] 20:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | Rule #52: “Never ask when you can take.” This rule is one for thieves, not merchants and producers. It is indeed a rule consistently followed by politicians but not by businesspeople. |
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| − | *I don't think it was ever named, but the word 'head-dress' best sums it up, as you mentioned. The purpose was never stated, but it's probably a Ferengi custom to wear, just as the [[Bajoran earring]] is to the Bajorans. - [[User:Enzo Aquarius|Enzo Aquarius]] 20:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | **Do you think it should be in this article somewhere? [[User:Federation|Federation]] 20:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :::Simply put, yes ;) - [[User:Enzo Aquarius|Enzo Aquarius]] 20:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | OK, I added a clothing section to the culture section which is more or less a stub, but it references the head-dress. Feel free to improve it. Obviously I'm no expert on Ferengi head-dress. [[User:Federation|Federation]] 02:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the Headdress was a cheat by the makeup artists to hide the demarcation between the end of the prosthetics and the neck, because it took a long time to do. They put the time in for Quark though. |
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| − | |||
| − | =="make pilgrimages" say wha?== |
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| − | I took out this last line, which is completely ad libbed by whoever wrote it in reference to Wall St: "who routinely visit Earth to make pilgrimages to the 'holy site' of commerce and business". There is no cannon evidence I know of to support this. The only reference to Wall St and Ferengi is a toss away line by Janeway that makes no mention of this so far as I know. If I'm wrong, please feel free to repost with the dialogue or script reference posted here. [[User:Logan 5|Logan 5]] 01:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | :It's cited on [[Wall Street]] as being from {{e|11:59}}. [[User:Jaf|Jaf]] 01:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf |
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| − | |||
| − | == Name Origin == |
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| − | I removed this note from the first paragraph: |
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| − | :''It should be noted that the word "Ferengi" is actually a Mughal-era Indian slur applied to British and other European colonists during the 18th century, meaning essentially "greedy, cultureless foreigner."'' |
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| − | Similar information is already in the background section, but this comment is a bit more extensive. Is it worth expanding the background note a bit to use some of this text perhaps? -- [[User:Sulfur|Sulfur]] 00:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | I believe it originates from the Amharic 'ferengi'. There are lots of parangs, barangs, ferengis, farangs, faranjis, frangos, etc. so it gets easy to lose track. What '''does''' support my assertion is the fact that the title of Grand Nagus is an obvious corruption of Amharic 'negus' (king). Put 2 and 2 together. |
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| − | :2 and 2 don't necesserily add up. Sounds like you are speculating to me. Unless you have an actual production resource, I am remove this, and sticking with what the note was before, which looks more like it is from a production side source. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup> [[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span></sup>]] 19:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | :: Very well, name another language which a) has a variant of the word 'farang', and b) has a word for king or ruler that resembles 'negus'. You'll be hard-pressed to do so. So why isn't the title of 'Grand Nagus' something like 'Grand Rex/Raja/Khun' instead? (Especially given that Khun would actually be a more apt description of the rank of their office.) |
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| − | :I don't need to. Now, if you want to add the line and have it read "the name '''''may''''' have come from X", I have no problem with that. Otherwise, you are SPECULATING without telling the reader that. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup> [[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span></sup>]] 18:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | ==Ferengi joke== |
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| − | Does anyone remember the joke about the Ferengi in the monkey suit from Farpoint? Should that joke be referenced somewhere? Does anyone know how the joke concludes? [[User:Federation|Federation]] 01:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | :The joke isn't in the ep- the movie made it up. (It would be surprising if it was in the ep, since the Ferengi were new to the Federation when they later appeared in ''{{e|The Last Outpost}}''.) [[User:9er|9er]] 01:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Actually, while they are not seen in the episode, and the joke is not in the episode, Ferengi are mentioned in {{e|Encounter at Farpoint}}. It is their first mention in the franchise. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup>[[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span>]]</sup> 01:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::(Edit conflict- wow, we think alike) Actually, the Ferengi Alliance was known to the Federation as a major power in {{e|Encounter at Farpoint}}, although it's obvious that none were seen until "The Last Outpost," so a joke about an unseen quasi-legendary galactic power wearing a monkey suit seems odd.--[[User:Tim Thomason|Tim Thomason]] 02:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | == Drumhead Appearance? == |
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| − | |||
| − | I just watched "The Drumhead" and I didn't see a single Ferengi in it. The whole episode takes place on the Enterprise so it's not as if there was an alien bar scene where one could've been seen in the background or something. I'm going to delete it for now, but if someone does know where a Ferengi is in the episode, by all means add it back in. Please post in here where it was you saw one. -- [[User:Hurley|Hurley]] 00:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :I don't remember any Ferengi in it. If they ''were'' in, it would most likely be a casual mention of their name in a line. – [[User:Fadm tyler|Fadm tyler]] 18:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | == Enterprise Reference == |
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| − | I was watching Star Trek; Enterprise today and they made brief mention of the ferengi in the episode call Dear Doctor episode 12. In that episode a newly discovered race mentioned having been visited by the feringi. Neither humans nor vulcans were aware of the race. That is the only mention. You may want to say something about it in the article |
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| − | :It's already there, under the "history" section. ;) --[[User:Shran|From Andoria with Love]] 04:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| − | == Hew-mon or Hew-mahn? == |
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| − | |||
| − | It sounds more like the latter. It doesn't sound like an "o". [[User:Avengah|Avengah]] 23:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | :On the startrek site I always see it referenced as hew-''mon'' so I tend to think that was the intended spelling. Unless a script states otherwise. --[[User:Morder|Morder]] 00:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | ::To write it the way it sounds, it would be "humàn". I'll bet that scripts just have "human" and everybody knows how a Ferengi character is supposed to pronounce it. Spoken accents aren't normally phonologized in scripts, instead, directors or coaches just tell the actor how to say something with an accent. [[User:TribbleFurSuit|TribbleFurSuit]] 00:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | ::: Two script examples: "Hu-man" {{e|The Last Outpost}} "Hew-man" ({{e|The Siege}}. --[[User:Gvsualan|Alan]] 04:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Well, anyway, it '''does''' sound like a short O. It sounds like the O in "off" or in "pot" or in "don". It doesn't sound like "hew-mone" with a long O, so, I think we're fine the way we are. If we write it the way those scripts do, it doesn't help the reader perceive the sound. --[[User:TribbleFurSuit|TribbleFurSuit]] 16:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 00:49, 8 October 2015
For general discussion, please visit Memory Alpha's Discussions feature, or join the chat on Discord.
FA status
Nomination (14 July - 24 July 2005, Failed)
I've added a lot to this by expanding, adding sections, and making sure that a lot of the links had articles created. There's still several areas that could be expanded, I think, and some links that need creating. But by and large I think this is a pretty good summation and description of a species, and could be more so with community effort. It's certainly one of the most complete species pages we have from a post-TOS era (which means Klingons, Romulans, and Vulcans don't count). --Logan 5 20:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Neutral Good job, but it seems to me that while there is a lot of information, it isn't necessarily well organized. Futz around with the prospect of consolidation. --1729 23:16, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Support --Tobyk777 17, July, 2005
- Oppose. Among other things, I don't see any mention of Nog's ascension to Nagus and the reforms he was going to make. --AJHalliwell 20:35, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Rom, not Nog, ascended to Nagus. Where would that go? Society, or Government? And it seems like we'd have to significantly expand either one to accommodate both the previous history of the Nagus and future reforms. Which leads me to think that might be better placed in the Nagus listing with only some slight, not significant, mention here. --Logan 5 15:32, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose I feel the information on society and culture can be expanded. --Jaf 15:43, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Archived --Alan del Beccio 19:13, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Renomination (04 Sept - 14 Sept 2005, Failed)
Perfect in every way. --BajoranBrouhaha 09:06, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose. It's an extensive article but hardly perfect. I'd personally like to see a bit more on their culture. I don't think that the references are complete either. --Scimitar 00:57, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose Yes I am opposing this one contrary to popular belief that I support everything. There is no list of appearances. The article has no link to the rules of Acquisition that I can find. The references are incomplete. There is no list of Ferengi, or at least a link to another article with a list. Tobyk777 02:11, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment - Did you read the article? There is at least one link to the Rules, and there is a link to a list of Ferengi (see the People section). And the references are pretty darn near complete, at least from all of the major Ferengi episodes on DS9. I'm sure there are some missing but most likely they are off-hand references in episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi. If they are missing, I'm hoping someone like yourself will put them in. A list of appearances would be good though... --Logan 5 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- I did read the article completely. I didn't see a link to the rules or to a list a ferengi. I might have glanced over it while reading. Let me also point out that in the comment ;preceding this one you used the phrase "I'm sure there are some missing" that means that it's incomplete. --Tobyk777 00:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- "that means that it's incomplete." Uh-huh, which is one of my stated reasons for opposing it below. I was only pointing out that two of your reasons were inaccurate. --Logan 5 03:34, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- I think that someone went in and revised it. now I count 3 links to the rules. I didn't see any before. --Tobyk777 04:30, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment - I think this should be removed, based on the fact it was nomiated by a blocked user. --Alan del Beccio 05:35, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Well, that would be because they were blocked after they nominated it because they turned out to be a vandal... --Alan del Beccio
- Mild Oppose. I did a lot of work on this page myself but I feel like it's a bit wordy and probably does not capture many references from episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi (though I'm almost positive that all of the major eps are there). I'd feel more comfortable supporting the nomination after some other users had a go-round on the article to make sure there aren't important pieces of info missing. --Logan 5 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. You know, even though I have a slight opposition to this article in its current state, I have to wonder how Bolians can be a featured article with such relatively little content and almost nothing in depth, and yet Ferengi is not worth it? The Bolian article is almost entirely anecdotal and yet certainly there is more known about the Ferengi, and the article is more complete, than many we've seen as FAs. I'm just starting to wonder if people just don't like the Ferengi. Just a thought/observation.
- Mild Oppose. It is an extensive, well-written and well-researched article, but it just seems... incomplete to me. As Scimitar pointed out, more info on their culture would be nice. And as Gvsualan pointed out... this was nominated by a now-banned user. --From Andoria with Love 02:57, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
Renomination (16 Nov - 30 Nov 2005, Success)
Self-nomination/Re-nomination. This will be the third nomination for this article. The first time it failed deservedly so, the second time I'm less sure because some objections were far more vague than we've recently allowed or were addressed and fixed. This time, however, it has been through the #Peer review process which has lead to more in-depth content, pictures, etc. and feedback from multiple users. I believe it meets all tangible criteria for FAs in that it is thorough, complete, well-written and stable. It's a significant species with a lot of content from all four post-TOS series and, to me at least, is informative and entertaining. I submit that unless you just don't like the Ferengi there is very little reason not to support this nomination. --Logan 5 19:41, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Question. Looks good, but what does "belief in the finite but eternal nature of material accumulation means that you can take it with you" mean? I'm not an expert on Ferengi, or I'd change the wording myself, but that's a contradiction (maybe it was intended to be, but it sounds awkward to me). --Sloan 19:41, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
You know the saying "you can't take it with you"? Well, the Ferengi believe you can take it with you. That's what the sentence is trying to say, maybe not as clearly as it could. Feel free to improve. --Logan 5 00:39, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Support. --Weyoun 05:05, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- I don't share Sloan's concern; that part is fine. However, perhaps we could add some info on how the Ferengi were exaggerated caricatures of Human nature and whatnot (I remember one of the writers, I think Robert Hewitt Wolfe, talking about it somewhere). That's why they were "comedic", but on the same note, would it be appropriate to note how unpopular Ferengi-centered episodes were? I wish I'd been more active in MA back when the peer review took place or I'd have brought this point up then, sorry. --Vedek Dukat Talk | Duty Roster 02:26, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to note the general fan dislike in the background section or not, but in general I don't think we do that kind of editorializing. Besides, it would seem to be well-stated just by the lack of attention the nomination of this extensive and thorough article is getting. --Logan 5 12:36, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- It's definitely not appropriate to note things like popularity, but I don't know if the lack of attention is because of that. I would say it was from the relative inactivity on MA lately, but Luther Sloan apparently woke people up while this and V'Ger are glanced over. I think it's just easier to complete and vote on something minor like Sloan as opposed to a race with a character who's in every DS9 ep; as for V'Ger, I haven't seen TMP, so dunno. --Weyoun 20:42, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- It seems there are a few citations missing in the philosophy section. I'd also like to see an appearance list and a reference list. Otherwise I support. --Jaf 20:52, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
The reference list was deleted by another user so that's probably up to the community to return it or not. What areas of philosophy do you feel need extra citation? --Logan 5 23:06, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- The first paragraph, info about the lungs, brain and ribs. --Jaf 13:35, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, physiology. Cited. --Logan 5 17:45, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Haha, my bad. --Jaf 21:01, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
So is that a support? --Logan 5 22:15, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Yup. --Jaf 22:40, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Support and my hat's off to Logan for bugging us (and I mean that in a positive, persistent way, not annoying) all into voting since I think people don't look at this page often enough. Good job. --Vedek Dukat Talk | Duty Roster 23:07, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Nomination process is over. Article has been featured since 2005. --From Andoria with Love
Review (08 May - 26 June 2015, Upheld)
A still excellent article that deserves to remain an FA. This one is extremely detailed and has a tremendous amount of background information. --| TrekFan Open a channel 23:16, May 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Support. - Archduk3 08:08, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
- Support. - A typical Defiant article, thorough to a fault, how not to uphold FA status...--Sennim (talk) 05:00, June 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Support. Tom (talk) 12:26, June 8, 2015 (UTC)
Hew-mon or Hew-mahn?
It sounds more like the latter. It doesn't sound like an "o". Avengah 23:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- On the startrek site I always see it referenced as hew-mon so I tend to think that was the intended spelling. Unless a script states otherwise. --Morder 00:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- To write it the way it sounds, it would be "humàn". I'll bet that scripts just have "human" and everybody knows how a Ferengi character is supposed to pronounce it. Spoken accents aren't normally phonologized in scripts, instead, directors or coaches just tell the actor how to say something with an accent. TribbleFurSuit 00:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Two script examples: "Hu-man" "The Last Outpost" "Hew-man" ("The Siege". --Alan 04:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, anyway, it does sound like a short O. It sounds like the O in "off" or in "pot" or in "don". It doesn't sound like "hew-mone" with a long O, so, I think we're fine the way we are. If we write it the way those scripts do, it doesn't help the reader perceive the sound. --TribbleFurSuit 16:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
- To write it the way it sounds, it would be "humàn". I'll bet that scripts just have "human" and everybody knows how a Ferengi character is supposed to pronounce it. Spoken accents aren't normally phonologized in scripts, instead, directors or coaches just tell the actor how to say something with an accent. TribbleFurSuit 00:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
alcohol
I seem to remember a TNG episode that discussed the fact that Ferengi would serve alcohol to humans during trade negotiations and get them too drunk to make good deals, and either Ferengi don't metabolize alcohol the same as humans or they would drink a synthetic alcohol that later became popular in the Federation. Am I crazy? 4.249.198.186 21:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say you're crazy. :) It was said that the Ferengi invented synthehol, I believe. This might be what you are thinking of, but I don't recall the rest of your post being mentioned in canon. --31dot 01:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- I do recall them inventing synthehol. The reference to getting other people drunk was mentioned I think in Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Volume 3 or Millennium. – Morder 01:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Role of Women
- Because of this Ferengi males were often very protective and loving of their mothers, and this was even reflected in the Rules of Acquisition, Rule 31 was "Never make Fun of a Ferengi's Mother" (DS9: "The Siege"
This short bit was added to the section about the women's role recently, has anyone got anything about it? I haven't seen anything for it for the typical Ferengi. Rom and Quark were not your typical Ferengi (mainly Rom, the one who showed affection for his mother). – Fadm tyler 23:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
- It might be worth mentioning this rule in that portion of the article, but I think its a stretch to tie it to the way they raise their kids.--31dot 23:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Headdresses
Is there significance in how Quark does not wear one, but his brother (and his brother's son) do (in DS9)? Yleron 19:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, because Quark's headpiece doesn't have a slit down the back. — Morder (talk) 19:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Removed notes
I removed the following speculation:
- The rainy climate of the Ferengi homeworld and the low-order invertebrates constituting Ferengi cuisine would seem to suggest a species that evolved as foragers living close to the ground.
And the following note which is a bit nitpickish/opinonated:
- Interestingly, the Ferengi did not seem to make much use of modern technology to straighten their teeth.
– Cleanse 07:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
troi sensing emotion when she shouldnt be able to
isnt it possible when she says she senses something, shes refering not to her telepathic abilities, but her above average observational skils due to being a counselor? ie: like how cops are better at reading deception? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neotechni (talk • contribs).
- Not really, I believe the difference are between thought and emotion. Troi can sense emotional states, but not thoughts. Perhaps the show pictures emotions as something that is not coming from the brain. Maybe originating there, but not being fully realised there. 46.5.165.122 11:26, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
Judaism Compared to Ferengi
Well wikipedia talks about that subject but why doesnt the 'official star trek wiki'? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.78.108.238.
- If there is some citation to the effect that this is what the producers intended, then yes, we would discuss it. But I have never found such a claim. As noted on the page, Ferengi were intended a spoof of modern humans and greed generally.–Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 00:38, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Well i have seen it on wiki here and it seems to have citations, i haven't read the citations thoroughly, but I think it is good enough. _Whovian_Trek_ 15:29, August 17, 2011 (UTC)WhovianTrek
- That article does mention the book Religions of Star Trek, but I believe it was that author's own opinion and not a wideley held belief that they parodied the Jewish people. However, since it has a cite, I believe a note on it can be added, just be careful of the wording so as not to suggest they were created with that in mind because I don't think they were. --| TrekFan Open a channel 15:34, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Well i have seen it on wiki here and it seems to have citations, i haven't read the citations thoroughly, but I think it is good enough. _Whovian_Trek_ 15:29, August 17, 2011 (UTC)WhovianTrek
Ferengi Hearts??
In the teaser of one of the Season 3 DS9 episodes after hearing that the vols him and rom have will be confiscating he says that "This will break Rom's hearts" which leads me to believe that like The Doctor (from Doctor Who) they have dual(or maybe more) hearts... is there any evidence to the contrary or to confirm this?? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.249.220.197.
- You misheard. He actually says it'll break Morn's hearts. Which could mean that Lurian's have two hearts. In the TNG episode Suspicions Dr Crusher performs an autopsy on Reyga and is later shown looking at the results the image on her screen shows just the one heart.Lt.Lovett (talk) 09:57, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
inspiration for the ferengi
Have they ever said who or what the inspiration for the Ferengi were? Like a particular culture, country, society...Republicans? It would be interesting to include that information in the main article if it can be cited. I noticed a section like that is missing and wasnt sure if it was because there just is no information available in that regard. Distantlycharmed 05:26, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Republicans? Really? I'm glad nobody has added such a ridiculous attempt at political debate to an article about Star Trek. I see somebody wanted to mention "the jews" up above, but that too doesn't pass bullshit tests. --139.78.253.251 14:56, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Actually Ira Stephen Behr (spelling?) said the Ferengi are the most Human of all species - they have all the attributes we have - including the greed. The fact that they are greedy is probably part of the deal and especially comedy. They are so disgustingly greedy it is comedic, just like republicans. Anyway i saw that comment in one of the sections about Ferengi on here or maybe Quark or maybe it was an episode on the Ferengi. I forgot. Distantlycharmed (talk) 16:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
Clearly, given the strong regulatory role of the FCA and the widespread bribery of government officials, it is not a free market capitalist society. If anything, it's Fascist without the militarism: the government doesn't own the means of production but has quite strong controls over it.
Synthehol
This article implies that synthehol is a Ferengi invention, but that isn't mentioned in the article about Synthehol. I didn't even know that humans had contact with the Ferengi as long as synthehol existed. (ignoring Enterprise for a moment) If it was mentioned in the DS9 episodes referenced, are we sure it's meant to be taken literally?--139.78.253.251
- Humans wouldn't have to know the Ferengi in order to be given (or told how to make) their products, if done through intermediaries(The Federation knows a species who knows the Ferengi). Our policy is to assume that characters are speaking truthfully unless proven otherwise. 31dot (talk) 15:06, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Crony Capitalism
This text was added to the introductory paragraph of the article:
- However, it was far from a free market—the Ferengi Commerce Authority had enormous regulatory powers and the right to suspend business rights and confiscate private property, and bribery of government officials was a way to get ahead. Thus the Ferengi society was closer to ‘crony capitalism’ and a mixed economy than a free market.
There are two major issues with this text:
- "Crony capitalism" was never used in canon
- The rest of the blurb, especially starting with the "however" lines it up to be somewhat nitpickish.
This could possibly be rewritten to be background information, but comes across like original research (the "thus" portion suggests that) than anything else right now. -- sulfur (talk) 16:09, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Excuse me, the article now read, "Ferengi civilization was built on the ideals of free enterprise, where earning profit was the sole meaningful goal in life, superseding all other endeavors." This is manifestly false, since it is NOT "free enterprise" if the government led by the Nagus can use force to shut down business, confiscate property, forbid free associations (including unions). It might be "original research" to claim that "the Ferengi are a typical leftist caricature of capitalism" (as one Randian does The Ferengi – the ultimate strawmen of capitalism, but not to claim that it really is crony capitalism (and indeed fascism given the power of the government) rather than a free market. Another article Science Fiction and Economic Fiction points out:
- In addition to having the Ferengi costume look clownish and filling Ferengi mouths with sharp, ugly teeth, Star Trek writers have composed a set of strictures that the Ferengi allegedly follow. Called “The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition,” these 286 pieces of allegedly capitalist wisdom are mostly absurd. Consider:
Rule #1: “Once you have their money … never give it back.” Any businessperson who refused to return money to a dissatisfied customer would not be in business for long. Competitors more accommodating to consumers would outcompete such ignoramuses. Rule #2: “Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity” and Rule #21: “Never place friendship above profit.” No doubt a few capitalists are sociopathic in this way—just as, no doubt, so too are a few politicians. But how many businesspeople do you know who would wittingly sacrifice their families’ and their friends’ best interests even for the smallest economic gain? Rule #27: “There’s nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.” Really now. Anyone who knows anything about capitalist reality knows that dishonest businesspeople eventually are caught—not so much by the law but rather by consumers who prefer to deal with honest businesspeople. Dishonest business dealings are a sure recipe for business failure. Rule #52: “Never ask when you can take.” This rule is one for thieves, not merchants and producers. It is indeed a rule consistently followed by politicians but not by businesspeople.