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FA status Edit
Nomination (14 July - 24 July 2005, Failed) Edit
I've added a lot to this by expanding, adding sections, and making sure that a lot of the links had articles created. There's still several areas that could be expanded, I think, and some links that need creating. But by and large I think this is a pretty good summation and description of a species, and could be more so with community effort. It's certainly one of the most complete species pages we have from a post-TOS era (which means Klingons, Romulans, and Vulcans don't count). --Logan 5 20:54, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Neutral Good job, but it seems to me that while there is a lot of information, it isn't necessarily well organized. Futz around with the prospect of consolidation. --1729 23:16, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Support --Tobyk777 17, July, 2005
- Oppose. Among other things, I don't see any mention of Nog's ascension to Nagus and the reforms he was going to make. --AJHalliwell 20:35, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Rom, not Nog, ascended to Nagus. Where would that go? Society, or Government? And it seems like we'd have to significantly expand either one to accommodate both the previous history of the Nagus and future reforms. Which leads me to think that might be better placed in the Nagus listing with only some slight, not significant, mention here. --Logan 5 15:32, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose I feel the information on society and culture can be expanded. --Jaf 15:43, 21 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- Archived --Alan del Beccio 19:13, 24 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Renomination (04 Sept - 14 Sept 2005, Failed) Edit
Perfect in every way. --BajoranBrouhaha 09:06, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose. It's an extensive article but hardly perfect. I'd personally like to see a bit more on their culture. I don't think that the references are complete either. --Scimitar 00:57, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose Yes I am opposing this one contrary to popular belief that I support everything. There is no list of appearances. The article has no link to the rules of Acquisition that I can find. The references are incomplete. There is no list of Ferengi, or at least a link to another article with a list. Tobyk777 02:11, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment - Did you read the article? There is at least one link to the Rules, and there is a link to a list of Ferengi (see the People section). And the references are pretty darn near complete, at least from all of the major Ferengi episodes on DS9. I'm sure there are some missing but most likely they are off-hand references in episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi. If they are missing, I'm hoping someone like yourself will put them in. A list of appearances would be good though... --Logan 5 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- I did read the article completely. I didn't see a link to the rules or to a list a ferengi. I might have glanced over it while reading. Let me also point out that in the comment ;preceding this one you used the phrase "I'm sure there are some missing" that means that it's incomplete. --Tobyk777 00:16, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- "that means that it's incomplete." Uh-huh, which is one of my stated reasons for opposing it below. I was only pointing out that two of your reasons were inaccurate. --Logan 5 03:34, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- I think that someone went in and revised it. now I count 3 links to the rules. I didn't see any before. --Tobyk777 04:30, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment - I think this should be removed, based on the fact it was nomiated by a blocked user. --Alan del Beccio 05:35, 5 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Well, that would be because they were blocked after they nominated it because they turned out to be a vandal... --Alan del Beccio
- Mild Oppose. I did a lot of work on this page myself but I feel like it's a bit wordy and probably does not capture many references from episodes that don't focus on the Ferengi (though I'm almost positive that all of the major eps are there). I'd feel more comfortable supporting the nomination after some other users had a go-round on the article to make sure there aren't important pieces of info missing. --Logan 5 16:23, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)
- Comment. You know, even though I have a slight opposition to this article in its current state, I have to wonder how Bolians can be a featured article with such relatively little content and almost nothing in depth, and yet Ferengi is not worth it? The Bolian article is almost entirely anecdotal and yet certainly there is more known about the Ferengi, and the article is more complete, than many we've seen as FAs. I'm just starting to wonder if people just don't like the Ferengi. Just a thought/observation.
- Mild Oppose. It is an extensive, well-written and well-researched article, but it just seems... incomplete to me. As Scimitar pointed out, more info on their culture would be nice. And as Gvsualan pointed out... this was nominated by a now-banned user. --From Andoria with Love 02:57, 7 Sep 2005 (UTC)
Renomination (16 Nov - 30 Nov 2005, Success) Edit
Self-nomination/Re-nomination. This will be the third nomination for this article. The first time it failed deservedly so, the second time I'm less sure because some objections were far more vague than we've recently allowed or were addressed and fixed. This time, however, it has been through the #Peer review process which has lead to more in-depth content, pictures, etc. and feedback from multiple users. I believe it meets all tangible criteria for FAs in that it is thorough, complete, well-written and stable. It's a significant species with a lot of content from all four post-TOS series and, to me at least, is informative and entertaining. I submit that unless you just don't like the Ferengi there is very little reason not to support this nomination. --Logan 5 19:41, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Question. Looks good, but what does "belief in the finite but eternal nature of material accumulation means that you can take it with you" mean? I'm not an expert on Ferengi, or I'd change the wording myself, but that's a contradiction (maybe it was intended to be, but it sounds awkward to me). --Sloan 19:41, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC)
You know the saying "you can't take it with you"? Well, the Ferengi believe you can take it with you. That's what the sentence is trying to say, maybe not as clearly as it could. Feel free to improve. --Logan 5 00:39, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Support. --Weyoun 05:05, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- I don't share Sloan's concern; that part is fine. However, perhaps we could add some info on how the Ferengi were exaggerated caricatures of Human nature and whatnot (I remember one of the writers, I think Robert Hewitt Wolfe, talking about it somewhere). That's why they were "comedic", but on the same note, would it be appropriate to note how unpopular Ferengi-centered episodes were? I wish I'd been more active in MA back when the peer review took place or I'd have brought this point up then, sorry. --Vedek Dukat Talk | Duty Roster 02:26, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to note the general fan dislike in the background section or not, but in general I don't think we do that kind of editorializing. Besides, it would seem to be well-stated just by the lack of attention the nomination of this extensive and thorough article is getting. --Logan 5 12:36, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- It's definitely not appropriate to note things like popularity, but I don't know if the lack of attention is because of that. I would say it was from the relative inactivity on MA lately, but Luther Sloan apparently woke people up while this and V'Ger are glanced over. I think it's just easier to complete and vote on something minor like Sloan as opposed to a race with a character who's in every DS9 ep; as for V'Ger, I haven't seen TMP, so dunno. --Weyoun 20:42, 26 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- It seems there are a few citations missing in the philosophy section. I'd also like to see an appearance list and a reference list. Otherwise I support. --Jaf 20:52, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
The reference list was deleted by another user so that's probably up to the community to return it or not. What areas of philosophy do you feel need extra citation? --Logan 5 23:06, 27 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- The first paragraph, info about the lungs, brain and ribs. --Jaf 13:35, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, physiology. Cited. --Logan 5 17:45, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Haha, my bad. --Jaf 21:01, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
So is that a support? --Logan 5 22:15, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Yup. --Jaf 22:40, 28 Nov 2005 (UTC)
- Nomination process is over. Article has been featured since 2005. --From Andoria with Love
Review (08 May - 26 June 2015, Upheld) Edit
- Support. - Archduk3 08:08, June 1, 2015 (UTC)
- Support. - A typical Defiant article, thorough to a fault, how not to uphold FA status...--Sennim (talk) 05:00, June 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Support. Tom (talk) 12:26, June 8, 2015 (UTC)
Hew-mon or Hew-mahn? Edit
It sounds more like the latter. It doesn't sound like an "o". Avengah 23:55, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- On the startrek site I always see it referenced as hew-mon so I tend to think that was the intended spelling. Unless a script states otherwise. --Morder 00:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- To write it the way it sounds, it would be "humàn". I'll bet that scripts just have "human" and everybody knows how a Ferengi character is supposed to pronounce it. Spoken accents aren't normally phonologized in scripts, instead, directors or coaches just tell the actor how to say something with an accent. TribbleFurSuit 00:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, anyway, it does sound like a short O. It sounds like the O in "off" or in "pot" or in "don". It doesn't sound like "hew-mone" with a long O, so, I think we're fine the way we are. If we write it the way those scripts do, it doesn't help the reader perceive the sound. --TribbleFurSuit 16:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I seem to remember a TNG episode that discussed the fact that Ferengi would serve alcohol to humans during trade negotiations and get them too drunk to make good deals, and either Ferengi don't metabolize alcohol the same as humans or they would drink a synthetic alcohol that later became popular in the Federation. Am I crazy? 220.127.116.11 21:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say you're crazy. :) It was said that the Ferengi invented synthehol, I believe. This might be what you are thinking of, but I don't recall the rest of your post being mentioned in canon. --31dot 01:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Role of Women Edit
- Because of this Ferengi males were often very protective and loving of their mothers, and this was even reflected in the Rules of Acquisition, Rule 31 was "Never make Fun of a Ferengi's Mother" (DS9: "The Siege"
This short bit was added to the section about the women's role recently, has anyone got anything about it? I haven't seen anything for it for the typical Ferengi. Rom and Quark were not your typical Ferengi (mainly Rom, the one who showed affection for his mother). – Fadm tyler 23:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
- It might be worth mentioning this rule in that portion of the article, but I think its a stretch to tie it to the way they raise their kids.--31dot 23:44, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Is there significance in how Quark does not wear one, but his brother (and his brother's son) do (in DS9)? Yleron 19:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, because Quark's headpiece doesn't have a slit down the back. — Morder (talk) 19:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Removed notes Edit
I removed the following speculation:
- The rainy climate of the Ferengi homeworld and the low-order invertebrates constituting Ferengi cuisine would seem to suggest a species that evolved as foragers living close to the ground.
And the following note which is a bit nitpickish/opinonated:
- Interestingly, the Ferengi did not seem to make much use of modern technology to straighten their teeth.
– Cleanse 07:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
troi sensing emotion when she shouldnt be able to Edit
isnt it possible when she says she senses something, shes refering not to her telepathic abilities, but her above average observational skils due to being a counselor? ie: like how cops are better at reading deception? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neotechni (talk • contribs).
- Not really, I believe the difference are between thought and emotion. Troi can sense emotional states, but not thoughts. Perhaps the show pictures emotions as something that is not coming from the brain. Maybe originating there, but not being fully realised there. 18.104.22.168 11:26, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
Judaism Compared to Ferengi Edit
- If there is some citation to the effect that this is what the producers intended, then yes, we would discuss it. But I have never found such a claim. As noted on the page, Ferengi were intended a spoof of modern humans and greed generally.–Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 00:38, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Well i have seen it on wiki here and it seems to have citations, i haven't read the citations thoroughly, but I think it is good enough. _Whovian_Trek_ 15:29, August 17, 2011 (UTC)WhovianTrek
- That article does mention the book Religions of Star Trek, but I believe it was that author's own opinion and not a wideley held belief that they parodied the Jewish people. However, since it has a cite, I believe a note on it can be added, just be careful of the wording so as not to suggest they were created with that in mind because I don't think they were. --| TrekFan Open a channel 15:34, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
- Well i have seen it on wiki here and it seems to have citations, i haven't read the citations thoroughly, but I think it is good enough. _Whovian_Trek_ 15:29, August 17, 2011 (UTC)WhovianTrek
Ferengi Hearts?? Edit
In the teaser of one of the Season 3 DS9 episodes after hearing that the vols him and rom have will be confiscating he says that "This will break Rom's hearts" which leads me to believe that like The Doctor (from Doctor Who) they have dual(or maybe more) hearts... is there any evidence to the contrary or to confirm this?? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk).
- You misheard. He actually says it'll break Morn's hearts. Which could mean that Lurian's have two hearts. In the TNG episode Suspicions Dr Crusher performs an autopsy on Reyga and is later shown looking at the results the image on her screen shows just the one heart.Lt.Lovett (talk) 09:57, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
inspiration for the ferengi Edit
Have they ever said who or what the inspiration for the Ferengi were? Like a particular culture, country, society...Republicans? It would be interesting to include that information in the main article if it can be cited. I noticed a section like that is missing and wasnt sure if it was because there just is no information available in that regard. Distantlycharmed 05:26, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Republicans? Really? I'm glad nobody has added such a ridiculous attempt at political debate to an article about Star Trek. I see somebody wanted to mention "the jews" up above, but that too doesn't pass bullshit tests. --126.96.36.199 14:56, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Actually Ira Stephen Behr (spelling?) said the Ferengi are the most Human of all species - they have all the attributes we have - including the greed. The fact that they are greedy is probably part of the deal and especially comedy. They are so disgustingly greedy it is comedic, just like republicans. Anyway i saw that comment in one of the sections about Ferengi on here or maybe Quark or maybe it was an episode on the Ferengi. I forgot. Distantlycharmed (talk) 16:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
Clearly, given the strong regulatory role of the FCA and the widespread bribery of government officials, it is not a free market capitalist society. If anything, it's Fascist without the militarism: the government doesn't own the means of production but has quite strong controls over it.
This article implies that synthehol is a Ferengi invention, but that isn't mentioned in the article about Synthehol. I didn't even know that humans had contact with the Ferengi as long as synthehol existed. (ignoring Enterprise for a moment) If it was mentioned in the DS9 episodes referenced, are we sure it's meant to be taken literally?--188.8.131.52
- Humans wouldn't have to know the Ferengi in order to be given (or told how to make) their products, if done through intermediaries(The Federation knows a species who knows the Ferengi). Our policy is to assume that characters are speaking truthfully unless proven otherwise. 31dot (talk) 15:06, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
This text was added to the introductory paragraph of the article:
- However, it was far from a free market—the Ferengi Commerce Authority had enormous regulatory powers and the right to suspend business rights and confiscate private property, and bribery of government officials was a way to get ahead. Thus the Ferengi society was closer to ‘crony capitalism’ and a mixed economy than a free market.
There are two major issues with this text:
- "Crony capitalism" was never used in canon
- The rest of the blurb, especially starting with the "however" lines it up to be somewhat nitpickish.
This could possibly be rewritten to be background information, but comes across like original research (the "thus" portion suggests that) than anything else right now. -- sulfur (talk) 16:09, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
- Excuse me, the article now read, "Ferengi civilization was built on the ideals of free enterprise, where earning profit was the sole meaningful goal in life, superseding all other endeavors." This is manifestly false, since it is NOT "free enterprise" if the government led by the Nagus can use force to shut down business, confiscate property, forbid free associations (including unions). It might be "original research" to claim that "the Ferengi are a typical leftist caricature of capitalism" (as one Randian does The Ferengi – the ultimate strawmen of capitalism, but not to claim that it really is crony capitalism (and indeed fascism given the power of the government) rather than a free market. Another article Science Fiction and Economic Fiction points out:
- In addition to having the Ferengi costume look clownish and filling Ferengi mouths with sharp, ugly teeth, Star Trek writers have composed a set of strictures that the Ferengi allegedly follow. Called “The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition,” these 286 pieces of allegedly capitalist wisdom are mostly absurd. Consider:
Rule #1: “Once you have their money … never give it back.” Any businessperson who refused to return money to a dissatisfied customer would not be in business for long. Competitors more accommodating to consumers would outcompete such ignoramuses. Rule #2: “Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity” and Rule #21: “Never place friendship above profit.” No doubt a few capitalists are sociopathic in this way—just as, no doubt, so too are a few politicians. But how many businesspeople do you know who would wittingly sacrifice their families’ and their friends’ best interests even for the smallest economic gain? Rule #27: “There’s nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.” Really now. Anyone who knows anything about capitalist reality knows that dishonest businesspeople eventually are caught—not so much by the law but rather by consumers who prefer to deal with honest businesspeople. Dishonest business dealings are a sure recipe for business failure. Rule #52: “Never ask when you can take.” This rule is one for thieves, not merchants and producers. It is indeed a rule consistently followed by politicians but not by businesspeople.