Son or Son-in-Law? Edit

Wasn't Isabel Felisa's daughter and Paul her son-in-law?--James Cody 08:08, 19 Dec 2004 (CET)

Since both Beverly's parents had the last name of Howard on her bio screen, it's assumed that Paul had to be her son. Then again, with the confusing history behind the Howard last name, anything could be possible... -- SmokeDetector47 08:20, 19 Dec 2004 (CET)
Maybe Paul took his wife's surname.--James Cody 13:16, 19 Dec 2004 (CET)

Redux Edit

I keep trying to change the information of this page, but it keeps being put back to the FALSE information. Billy Keikeya

Isabel Howard is Felisa's daughter, and Paul is her son-in-law. I am tired of people assuming Paul is a Howard just because that's Beverly's last name. Not all women have to take their husband's surname! In the case of the Howards, women always kept their surname, and husbands marrying in would take it as well. It's not a big deal. Beverly changed her last name to Crusher because it was more important to Jack, but Beverly mentioned in an early episode how Felisa was disappointed with her for not keeping her name. Also, in Sub Rosa, Beverly said that all Howard women had green eyes, except Beverly and Isabel, implying that Isabel is, in fact, a Howard woman with actual Howard blood. I believe there were other mentions of her parents, but perhaps they mostly took place in the TNG pocketbooks and that's why a casual viewer might be confused about Isabel being Felisa's daughter.Keikeya

I hope this can be changed for good and people will stop reading inaccurate information.Keikeya 00:51, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't seem entirely clear to me either way, so I'm not sure what we should do here. --31dot 01:40, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

zI swear, it's in one of the books. I need to go find which book, exactly, but it was my understanding that the books are canon. The book was written while the show was still on the air, too, so it's not just something they decided later. And I still really feel that it's clearly implied on the show, with hints about Howard women keeping their surname and Isabel being one of the only Howard women without green eyes (TNG: "Sub Rosa"). It wouldn't matter what color her eyes were if she wasn't a Howard by blood. --Keikeya 20:14, 4 April, 2012 (PST)

First, it's "canon", not "cannon". Second, books are not canon per the canon policy; if you are interested in contributing information from books, you can visit Memory Beta which does cover books.
Lastly, if you have a username, please log in before editing. If you wish to use one but haven't registered it, please register it; simply typing your name has no effect, as any user can type it. If you do not wish to register, simply sign with your IP address by typing ~~~~.31dot 03:32, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

You don't need to freak out over a typo, this is just a discussion, it's not the actual page. I agree that not all books are canon, but I don't think it's fair to say that none of the information is pertinent to the series. I think a small fact like who Felisa Howard's child is, should be recognized. The books didn't make it up, they just cleared it up since the show was so vague on the details of Beverly Crusher's personal life. The books are definitely more canon than the most recent Trek film, but I bet we're allowed to talk about THAT here. I'm not trying to be a pain, but I just wanted others to have correct information if they ever stumble onto this page. Keikeya 21:11 4 April, 2012 (PST)

I suggest you have a look at canon and our canon policy. Very briefly, all movies and TV series are canon. No books, games, comics etc. are canon.–Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 04:17, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
Without knowing what book this info came from, it can't even be added as apocrypha, to say nothing of the weight that might lend to what was, or wasn't, said in canon. It should also be noted that MB agrees with us on this matter, and I can find nothing online to suggest the information is incorrect. With that in mind, stop making changes to these pages before this discussion is over. - Archduk3 05:34, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't "freaking out", I was politely pointing out a correct spelling in an effort to help you. As suggested already, books are not "more canon" than the recent film; books are not canon whatsoever. 31dot 10:55, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
If you do have a book name that references this, then it can be put into the Apocrypha section, which we use to note what books have expanded on information, and briefly discuss the information they mention. -- sulfur 12:55, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
To clarify, I am not the one who made the most recent changes. I've made changes in the past without discussing, only because I didn't realize there was a place to discuss. I will have to reread my books to know exactly which one the information came from, but it doesn't even matter if they're not canon. However, I still fully believe that the series has enough evidence to suggest that Isabel is Felisa's daughter. I think it was strongly implied, though there is no firm answer, either way. And I don't feel that, just because it never explicitly states that Isabel is Felisa's daughter, we should just assume that Paul is her son. There is more evidence for the former. Let me pull some quotes from a few episodes so you can see how I've come to this conclusion -- Keikeya 14:05, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Howard by Blood or Marriage? Edit

I moved this from the Beverly Crusher talk page, because we've been having a similar conversation here, about Paul Howard and Isabel Howard and which is Felisa's child. But this new conversation was sparked by a line in the Beverly Crusher page, stating that Felisa "evidently married into the Nobel Howard Family." I think we're making a lot of assumptions, here, about being a blood Howard vs. marrying into the family. Just because she's a woman, doesn't mean that she can't have kept her maiden name. In fact, there is no real evidence to suggest she was ever actually married. It's complete speculation on my part, but I don't think she ever WAS married. I think it's likely she raised her daughter (or son; I know there is controversy about this, too) by herself. But here are the things that aren't speculation: Felisa was used by Ronin, an alien entity that was feeding off the Howards for centuries Sub Rosa (episode). It stands to reason that Ronin wouldn't have been attached to Felisa if she wasn't a Howard by blood, as it was something found in Howard DNA that attracted Ronin to these women. Also, a comment was made by Beverly Crusher, in the same episode, in regards to Felisa's green eye color, that (not verbatim) "All Howard women had them, except my mother and me," while talking with Deanna Troi. Again, this would seem to corroborate that Isabel is also a Howard by blood, I.E., Felisa's daughter. I am sure you're all sick of me debating the same subject. Keikeya 03:46, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Actress appearances in other episodes Edit

Isn't she the same person that played Picard's Mother/Grandmother, sitting for tea in a corridor, in "Where No One Has Gone Before"? 17:05, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

No. That was Herta Ware. -- sulfur 17:14, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ah. When she sat up in the coffin, she looked just like her. 22:27, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Birth year Edit

Felisa Howard's gravestone

Felisa's gravestone

The gravestone at the cemetery is listing her birth year as 2201 which would make her 169 years olf when she passed away. Tom (talk) 13:00, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Too bad that's olf and not old, or she would have broken McCoy's record for oldest naturally aged Human :p -- Capricorn (talk) 12:34, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
Also, the article claims the gravestone says 2291, and while neither is plausible, looking at it I guess it could be either. Perhaps a third opinion would be prudent before postulating 169 year old Humans. -- Capricorn (talk) 12:52, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I've added an image of the gravestone to this discussion. I think it looks like 0 instead of 9. Tom (talk) 12:56, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm leaning slightly towards 9, myself. Too bad my photoshop computer is away. -- Capricorn (talk) 13:16, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if this is still open to dispute or not, but it definitely looks like 2201 to me.--Noah Tall (talk) 23:07, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
In light of a recent edit that I thought was questionable, I've gone and got us a bluray screenshot. I still read 2291. -- Capricorn (talk) 15:49, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
That's definitely 2291. --| TrekFan Open a channel 21:31, April 21, 2015 (UTC)