Alternate article/namesEdit

FYI: Sisko's "desktop monitor" is already in the encyclopedia at Optical data net service access. --Bp 04:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

hrmmmm...that's pretty obscure. clearly i wouldn't have created the page without first attempting to find out whether the material had already been covered. as "optical data net service access" does not describe the equipment covered by "desktop monitor", i think we're in the clear. the name of this prop has never been spoken in dialogue, at least not that i am aware of, but if you or someone else has another suggestion as to what to call this device i would be grateful for the information. or opinion. Deevolution 04:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the name is written on the label. File:Hayes (Vice Admiral).jpg also appears to have "Optical Data Net service access" written on it. --Bp 04:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

i doubt that is what the equipment is called. if a panel is labelled "emergency systems access", it doesn't necessarily mean that we should stop calling it a panel and start calling it "emergency systems access". in "Thine Own Self", we saw data carrying a box labelled "radioactive", but that didn't make the box radioactive, it made the contents radioactive. if these labels were intended to identify the equipment by their names, we'd see doors labelled "door" and PADDs labelled simply "PADD", but i don't think i've ever seen a PADD with the word PADD on it. Deevolution 05:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
This is a good article, but it needs a name change. I'm sure there are some scripts or something which refer to this as a display interface or display terminal or something like that, but never a desktop monitor. --From Andoria with Love 06:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
"desktop monitor" comes from its description in terry j. erdmann's "the secrets of star trek insurrection", for lack of a better name... Deevolution 07:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

They do not label doors as "door" because there is a more specific label to place on it, like "Sick Bay." Similarly the panel labeled "emergency systems access" could be called an "emergency systems access panel" and could have an article on MA, while "panel" would be a dictionary definition and would not. There is a thing on the ship/station called an optical data net, and a device that is used to give acces to this optical data net. That object has a label on it that says "Optical data net service access." That is the title of the device. Furthermore, the device is more than a just a monitor. I think a clearly canon name from a label on the device beats a descriptive title "for lack of a better name." --Bp 07:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

going back to my first reply to your comment, i am open to suggestions for a more canon name for the device, but stand by my assertion. optical data net service access describes the function, not the equipment itself, just as "sickbay" describes what is behind the door, not the door itself. with that said, it should be noted within this article that these devices, whatever their name, provide access to ODN service. Deevolution 07:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
That device gets many names in the scripts, computer, computer terminal, desktop terminal, desktop monitor, desktop computer and desktop viewer are used most often. The familiar black TNG viewer was seen for the first time in the USS Enterprise-D's battle bridge ready room, it's identified as "viewer" in the script. We should try to find a reference from dialogue for this device and use that name then. --Jörg 12:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
That's a lotta redirects, lol! I think "desktop viewer" would be best for now, though, since that is one of the terms and since the terms "desktop" and "viewer" appear to be used most. It would also be a nice supplement article to the regular viewer and vice-versa. Then, once we get something referenced in dialogue (assuming it was), we can move it there. --From Andoria with Love 19:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, Kirk referred to the sickbay bed monitor (the attached desktop version attached to a swing arm) as the "viewing screen". "Space Seed". --GNDN 21:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
And in TNG: "Ensign Ro", Ro Laren identifies it (the white variety in her quarters) as "monitor", whereas Admiral Brackett identifies the black monitor in Picard's ready room as "this terminal" in "Unification I". --Jörg 22:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok... so, how about "desktop viewing screen monitor terminal"? :P --From Andoria with Love 03:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
...the bank they made in the shape of picard's terminal was called "The Next Generation Console Bank", i believe. because we all know that's canon. Deevolution 03:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The name of this device Edit

This device is an Optical data net service access for these reasons:

  1. It specifically says on two of the listed devices "OPTICAL DATA NET SERVICE ACCESS". The only reason for this label to appear on the device is to identify it. It is not a brand name or generic label like "door" or something. We can assume that all devices which behave in the same way are the same device. In fact, we are already doing that.
  2. "Monitors" and "Viewers" are a single part of the device. The visual display part. When someone says "Put it on the viewer", they mean put the visual data on the visual display portion of the whole device. At best these are common names, not technical ones.
  3. The device is interactive and "Some models featured additional button pads as well as ports capable of reading isolinear rods." All of them were interactive. Monitors and viewers are not themselves interactive, they only display output.
  4. The devices are terminals which give acces to the main computer via the optical data network of the ship or station. This itself is enought to give it the descriptive title "Optical Data Net service access", of course I should mention again that it is specifically written on two of the devices.

At least, the Starfleet ones, like those seen on the Enterprise and DS9, need to be moved to Optical data net service access page. --Bp 23:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hm, interesting. As those stickers were on just about everything, was anything else (like a PADD or a Jefferies tube wall or something) ever labeled as an ODN Service Access? And in an interesting coincidence, I have an ODN service access sticker on my monitor. Hm. - AJ Halliwell 00:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
since we're repeating ourselves..."optical data net service access" describes the function of the device, not the device itself. "optical data net service access" is not a noun nor does it make sense grammatically to refer to it as such. the sentence above "this device is an Optical Data Net service access" does not even make sense. as Jörg said above, at least one script refers to the device as a viewer, as does the star trek encyclopedia. there seem to be many generic names for it, but "optical data net service" is not a name. Deevolution 01:34, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It certainly makes sense as a name. It makes sense to call it that, not only because it was labeled that, but also because it does that. It provides access to the optical data net. Also, I have explained that "viewer" is a part, the visual part, the same way that the "monitor" that is sitting in front of you is not the computer. Both "Desktop monitor" and "Optical Data Net service access" are descriptive names; ODN service access has the benefit of being specifically labeled that on screen and also accurately describing what the device does. "Desktop monitor" does not describe what the device does, and it is not ever specifically named that, except in the non-spoken parts of the script. Those non-spoken parts are devices used by the writers not the characters. --Bp 03:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

please do not misunderstand, i am not married to the name "desktop monitor", i just believe that it is more accurate than your suggestion. i stand by my assertion that it does not make sense to call it an "optical data net service access", it is simply bad english. aside from that, labels are not the last word in what is canon. how many other pieces of equipment are labeled as such? do we have evidence of PADDs labeled "PADD"? i doubt it. as "optical data net service access" has never been spoken in reference to this device, i think the argument has little substance. and we should rely on what is in the script. i believe one of the mods should decide, because this discussion is just going in circles. Deevolution 04:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Even if Optical Data whatsit is true, it only applies to certain 24th century Starfleet monitors (maybe most of them). Monitors from Kirk's and Archer's era probably aren't ODN's, and the Klingon/Romulan/Other aliens are definitely not related. But all of them (including the "ODN access" monitors) are types of "desktop monitors" and are covered by this page. At most, we would separate the ODN info and link it from here (or wherever this would be moved too.--Tim Thomason 04:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how you can say "The argument has little substance" after reading the four points above, and I would also point out that Tricorders are most often labeled "tricorder". Anyway, I have explained how the "monitor" reference fits into the ODN service acces name, but no one has explained any of my points from above in a way that defends "desktop monitor" as the interactive device that access the main computer via the optical data net. The label is a bid deal, but this is more than just the label, it is the function of the device and its place among other ODN articles. About Tim's response, I said above, that I would be happy if the 24th century ones were moved to ODN service access. --Bp 05:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

What about 24th century ones that we do not know to be ODN? While Cardassians do seem to use ODN, do we know that the Klingons and the Romulans use it? --OuroborosCobra talk 05:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Quoting myself: "At least, the Starfleet ones, like those seen on the Enterprise and DS9, need to be moved to Optical Data Net service access page. " --Bp 05:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

i said that it has little substance because we are quibbling over tiny text likely not intended to be seen on screen vs. a script reference likely not intended to be heard in the final episode. no one seems to believe that desktop monitor is the best name to give this device, but it seems clear that the ODN stuff is not the correct name. i think it would be a mistake to break apart this entry by placing some of it into the ODN article. as i said before, the encyclopedia calls it a "viewer" and i think that is more concrete than any else mentioned here. despite the frequent inaccuracy of that book. but lets go point by point...
  1. these labels do not often identify equipment by name, but simply describe function, or content
  2. ODN service access could just as well identify only the display portion as the input areas do not seem to be labeled
  3. monitor has almost unanimously been deemed inappropriate
  4. once again, this does not fit within the english language, or with other star trek devices Deevolution 05:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Besides: the same device (The DS9 version) has a different label in the VOY episodes. It's legible in "Life Line" and says "Engineering access only", and it is seen in use in Barclay's apartment on Earth. Furthermore, the monitor seen in Troi's office in Insurrection was sold at the It's a wrap auction. It bore two labels, one on the front, one on the back. On the front, it said "access panel" and on the back "emergency access only"...--Jörg 18:13, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, having seen a ton of application labels over the time of the It's A Wrap! sale and auction, I can say for sure that the labels do not really 'describe' the monitors themselves, they are mostly stuff like 'Access panel' and 'engineering access'. - Enzo Aquarius 18:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, if Troi's in Ins. said "Emergency Access Only" then I agree we use Desktop monitor, cause clearly its not for emergency access only, and we can't pick and choose. - AJ Halliwell 18:42, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I just found out that the PADD Jake carries in many Season 4 episodes (The one with the Horatio Hornblower text) also carries the same "302 | Optical data net service access" label on the back, as do several other regular PADDs, some of them seen in close-up in the eBay listings of "It's a wrap!". --Jörg 20:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
The term visual display system was also used "Natural Law", which certainly is worth noting, in terms of a spoken word ref, which "desktop monitor" is not. As I recall, when referring to the screen, even as far back as TOS, they always said "display" or "screen," and we already have a viewscreen article. In addition, "One Little Ship" refers to one of the screens used to monitor plasma flow as the "plasma display system." --Alan del Beccio 23:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)