USS Yamato plaqueEdit
What's the source for the Yamato ship yard and launch date? IIRC the Encyclopedia only mentions the plaque's quote. --User:220.127.116.11 21:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- If the USS Enterprise-D was built at Utopia Planitia, and its the sister ship of the Yamato, its not too much of a leap of faith to presume that they were both built at the same ship yard. As to the year, I've no idea! zsingaya 21:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Which only means that they were of the same class and built at the same time, not necessarily at the same ship yard. The USS Missouri (BB-63) for example was built at the New York Navy Yard, while her sister ship, USS New Jersey (BB-62), was built at the Philadelphia Naval Shipard. --James Cody 21:28, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Dedication plaque ImagesEdit
Any chance of getting any actual IMAGES of dedication plaques?--T smitts 15:09, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)
- There are a couple on MA floating around, such as File:Sutherland-plaque.jpg, in case anyone wants to find a way to add them. But alot of them look fan-made, and aren't seen in incredible detail on the show. Some good examples of on screen though, would be the Equinox's and USS Voyager's, from "Equinox" and "Equinox, Part II". The Defiant's (second one) was seen really well when it was recommisioned from the USS Sao Paulo I think. -AJHalliwell 17:52, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Restructuring this pageEdit
Someone has suggested images added to this page, and I have had the notion i'd like to add a list of links to article titles listed on dedication plaques.. i decided to throw this out for discussion to see if this list of links would make a good addition to this list article.. basically, would anyone object if i removed the main table and divided it into subsections listing links from various plaques screencaps or set images have confirmed as being onscreen?
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D)Edit
|Galaxy-class - Starfleet registry NCC-1701-D|
|Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, Mars|
|Fifth starship to bear the name - Launched stardate 40759.5.|
|Starfleet Command|| Engineering Group
|| Warp Technologies Development Group
|| Advanced Technologies Group
|"To boldly go where no one has gone before..."|
- The USS Enterprise-D had a less detailed plaque until around TNG Season 3, when it was replaced with an updated version.
In this particular case i'm not sure if the quote would be attributed to Cochrane or Archer, but in other cases a link to the quote originator would be included also -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:10, 17 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Tsiolkovsky (from talk:Dedication plaques/temp)Edit
For the Tsiolkovski entry, the plaque says "К. З. ЦИОЛКОВСКИЙ." For the purposes of matching up with the rest of the plaques, should it be changed to read "К. З. ЦИОЛКОВСКИЙ," or even "К. З. Циолковский?" IanWatson 14:14, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- I'd say the latter fits the best with the style the most -- i was a little interested to find one reviewer thought the wrong characters were used -- that the name on he plaque is misspelled "K.Z. Tsiopkovskiy" ( http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/name_origins2.htm ). this might deserve a note. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:46, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Isn't it "Earth is the cradle of humanity, ..."? -- Cid Highwind 14:38, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- I copied off the plaque as reprinted at Starlog's TNG magazine -- Okuda's portfolio was featured in a number of issues -- the above site reproduces a negative of the plaque, but there are probably better versions available through search -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:46, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)
- Found it:
Forum:Dedication plaques and USS Voyager personnelEdit
- Rather than the confidential Talk:Rick Berman (Admiral) and User talk:Captainmike# Dedication plaque personnel and Voyager personnel, I put the discussion here, as it concerns many articles.
Number of articles moved to Forum:Number of dedication plaque character articles
USS Voyager crew manifest moved to Forum:Voyagers "other" crew who weren't in the Delta Quadrant
Speculation moved to Forum:Speculation about unseen topics-premises
Message to CaptainMike
I assure you, I have no problem with you, even if I criticize you a little. I thought it was better to bring the discussion here mostly about these important speculation issues, rather than discussing it only with you on a confidential page. - Philoust123 21:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Response from Captainmike
- Well, I hate to be singled out, but I haven't really seen a lot of interest in these articles from the general community, while I worked on the project of categorizing them.
- I don't mind you reproducing my writings from other talk pages, although you've presented numerous different moods of my work, and some opinions that i may have refined since then.
- I find the fact that I'm defending keeping NX-01 dedication personnel separate ironice, since i originally had an edit conflct with Tim about whether there should be multiple Gene Roddenberrys, or one. We settled on two-- because of the large gap between the 22nd century references and the late 23rd and on. I had originally opined a different form and then i doubled back and recombined some roddenberrys after separating them.
- Quite simply put, although I haven't the time to retrieve conversations from other talk pages (if they exist, as i dont keep chat logs either), that the general impression from other archivists was that these dedication plaque articles are "sketchy" at best -- there are a few (USS Yamato, The Nebula USS Prometheus) that we know exist but have never gotten to examine closeup. It has been correctly commented that the kind of photo enhancing necessary to obtain a believable result of their text is a problematic procedure. I am so very glad that other archivists have indulged me in performing such tasks, for example obtaining enlargements and enhancements of Wolf 359 photos to discern model usages and registries -- but again, these are always contested, need examination, and are time consuming to read and then defend.
- The plaques we can see clearly have a lot of names, as do the crew manifests. A lot of them conflict with each other
- The response from those I've gone to for further info: lackluster. To sum up some opinions: "who cares? they're not always readable onscreen" -- however, one opinion numerous people have given me: keep the speculation low, and try and not create numerous dummy articles.
- So the current scheme is designed to do that. I've tried to explain this, but some users don't see the big picture -- and who can blame them, there are hundreds of names, transcriptions that arent finished, and an incomplete categorization effort. I'm simply trying to make sure inaccurate points aren't added, and to preserve edit histories of work already done. Merging some of these articles would be irrevocably problematic. I'm representing the viewpoints of previous consensus and discussion to "minimize the number of Gene Roddenberrys" (and others) -- So I create a unified article about all occurrences. The longest lived of any of these people, should they be one person is from being an active member of Starfleet in 2293, no rank listed -- onward to being active in 2376. The is almost 90 years for a span, not 100+. Assuming they were all at least in their 20s in the earliest, its possible not all would even break 100. -- Captain M.K.B. 00:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't my intention to reinterpret your discussions, so sorry.
"I find the fact that I'm defending keeping NX-01 dedication personnel separate ironice." : I just resumed the discussion we have here [me] "For me, the R. Berman can't be the same as the 24th century captain..." [you] "I agree with your intuition -- the Earth Starfleet "R. Berman" probably isn't the same as the 23rd century version..." I am not aware of every conversation you had on that subject.
I know that these articles have less importance than others because they are only details in the trek universe, but sometimes you get obssesed with details :) For example, some people take hours checking screenshots of vessels in order to notice every details (see for example Ex Astris Scientia which is a great website for starships, which makes it unique in comparison to others who are only a listing of starships). Personnaly, I wouldn't take so much time on starships, they are probably crazy :)
I've worked a lot to make a great article for the Voyager crew because it always intrigued me a lot : all those extras, guest stars who only appeared one time, dead crewmembers) whereas the crew is composed of some 150-160 members. That's why I made a table with all of them, including their name, genre, rank, division, species and status (last time seen alive, cited in a manifest, returned in the Alpha Quadrant...) After I finished my article, someone had the bad idea to add those crew manifest and that was the beginning of an interminable revision of my article. That's why I worked on dedication plaque personnel. - Philoust123 19:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- Each article should have a note stating how each person could actually be more than one person. I consider NX-01 exampt because it is 140 years before the next named-listing plaque. Its a different Starfleet organization. The people have incomplete names, denying us the full knowledge they are the same person. -- Captain M.K.B. 00:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- since this was prefaced as "a message questioning me personally", I feel its a little off track, since I have a talk page. I'll remove the separate points to their own forums. -- Captain M.K.B. 21:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
My goal wasn't to blame you, that's why I put a "Message to CaptainMike" section, because I knew this would irritate you. I started to write this text on your user page, but as the whole issues exceed our both opinions, I prefered put this text on the forum in order to have others opinions (and we ironically are the only contributors to this discussion :) For the topic "number of articles", I personnaly like the actual consensus (people who may be the same should be put together in order to limit their number and Earth Starfleet people are most likely other people) and I think other views are also valuables. But I raised this issue here as MJ Burrage still ask for a debate here (last edit) and bringing the issue here was the best thing to do in order not to have the same debate for every "dedication" character (73 for the moment) with every interested contributor. - Philoust123 19:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- I never really considared names on the plaques to be people in starfleet or on the crew, if that was the case, why Isn't janeways name on it? The names are the production crew of the series, really, you don't actually see all the names save for special pictures... Terran Officer 09:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Number of dedication plaque character articlesEdit
See Dedication plaque comparison - People on the dedication plaque are frequently the same (because named after production staff members).
For those character, there were discussions about putting them on one page (all characters with the same name but there are not necessarily the same, as ranks and affectations changes...) or making several pages.
For example, Rick Berman (Admiral)'s article : User:MJBurrage proposed 4 articles : R. Berman (Earth Starfleet) ; Rick K. Berman (flag officer) ; Rick Berman (admiral) ; Rick Berman (commander).
User:Captainmike and I agreed that R. Berman is most likeky a different character because of the long lifespan he would have in that case (300 years at least) and the fact that we don't know if it is a male or female ("R.").
Rick K Berman and Adm Rick Berman may be the same character. It is possible that as a Human he lived over 120 years (McCoy was 137), but noone said he was Human which enables a long lifespan as an alien, that's why those 2 articles were put together, seeing the similarity between the 2 characters. I still think that they should stay together otherwise we could imagine 12 different Rick berman (one for each ship)
The case of Cdr Rick Berman is discussed here. - Philoust123 21:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- There is an 83 year span from 2293 (for the 1701-B people) to 2376 (the Sao Paulo people). Only a handful of names go that far -- these few people might be 110 or 120 years old, or be separate people -- lets keep all together in one article, and make a definite background note about this big uncertainty.
- Lets keep the NX-01 people separate. We don't know their first names. They lived 140 years before the next recorded occurrence of their last names. For all we know R. Berman could be Rolanda Berman.
- This will mean 2 articles per person. Three in some cases, where there might be a definite separate third individual. -- Captain M.K.B. 01:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The 120 years is an error. I wrongfully thought people from Enterprise-B were refered by grade (admiral, captain) but that didn't occur until the 2240s. I just realized that someone else put a reference about Rick K. Berman being a flag officer in the 2290s, that may the source of my error.
I'm still thinking people who may be the same should be put together in order to avoid too many articles (and the Voyager "crewmember" isn't necessary an other one as the issue is raised here. Those from Earth Starfleet may not be the same, according to the arguments exposed above. The only remaining problem is the name of some articles, they should be called differently. For example, "Rick Berman (Admiral)" wasn't an admiral during all his career from the 23rd century to the 24th and should better be called "Rick Berman (Starfleet)" - Philoust123 19:51, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
USS Relativity Edit
The plaque says "7th ship to bear the name" and registry number "NCV-...-G".. if I cound, A,B,C,D,E,F,G are 7 but the Relativity without a letter behind its registry number should've been counted as well. Is this a mistake here or in the original plaque or maybe starflett changed numbering in 500 years... --Ensign_Joe 21:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- Likely the numbering scheme changed, especially once Starfleet began constructing ships capable of time travel like the Relativity. But any answer would be speculation.--31dot 22:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Merge/Replacement suggestion Edit
as long as this list is unannotated, it might as well become a category. The gallery could be moved there as well. The suggested merge target currently is a category for Starfleet plaques only, but that could either be moved as well, or a more generic parent category be created. -- Cid Highwind 14:38, November 28, 2010 (UTC)