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Talk:Borg language

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DesignationsEdit

Why were the designations removed? Jaf 00:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf

Because I felt there was no relation at all with respect to the Borg language. I have no problem with including Borg algorithms, based on the fact that language is a form of algorithm. But spatial and species designations have nothing to do with language. Their is simply no relation between the two and language. (you might argue that species also have their language but that was before they were assimilated) -- Q 07:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Language is means of designation and designation is a language in the sense that it is made up of syntax and semantics. Jaf 11:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf
That would mean that in the other language articles a list of people should be included who spoke the language. As far as I am concerned language articles has only to do with the language itself, written, spoken, history or its composition, not who spoke it or which names are derived from the language itself. (the article name already shows which species use the language) If there are known translations they could be included. (see Klingon language) -- Q 08:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I think you are misunderstanding my point. What I am saying is that the Borg's systems of designation are languages of identifing. I'm not trying to address what they identify, just the fact that they are language. Jaf 16:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf
theres a hypothesis called 'saphir-whorf' which ive always found relevant to Trek's prime directive, and briefly touches on the naming of things. to quote from a wiki: "hypothesis argues that the nature of a particular language influences the habitual thought of its speakers. Different patterns of language yield different patterns of thought. This idea challenges the possibility of representing the world perfectly with language, because it acknowledges that the mechanisms of any language affect its users. The hypothesis emerged in many formulations, some weak and some strong."

Harry KimEdit

Is Harry the only non-Borg we've seen working with this language? Jaf 00:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)Jaf

As far as I know, yes. -- Q 08:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation?Edit

Should it be mentioned that the Borg Tend to say Multi digit numbers as individual Numbers example Unimatrix 424 Grid 116 is spoken as Unimatrix Four Two Four Grid One One Six Not Four hundred twenty four. It dose seem to occur more often then not – Alexlyoko13 19:23, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Image removed from article Edit

Reason: image has been uncited since 2007, now tagged as "not to be used". Should be replaced with a screenshot, or problems of the image resolved first. -- Cid Highwind 12:41, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

PNA cite Edit

After having read the article again, I think there is an abundance of speculation and also other article problems (so this borders on a generic "PNA"). I chose {{pna-cite}} in case some of that really is from the shows without speculation:

First sentence
The Borg knowing other languages doesn't make those other languages "Borg language" - so that sentence is out of place here.
Bolded "alphanumeric code"
if this is a proper title (cite?), let's move the page to that location.
"is the written language of the Borg"/"language consisted of circular symbols"/...
is it, really? Possibly, "alphanumeric code" is just an alphabet used to represent "Borg language" under specific circumstances, just like "English language" can be represented by a latin font, Braille or ASCII code. There is no 1:1 connection between languages and fonts/codes...
"it was written in many different directions"
Could some of them perhaps be just a different alignment, not a different writing direction?

-- Cid Highwind 15:08, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Rename Edit

As per Cid's concerns above I suggest a rename for this article. It was never called "Borg language" but "Alphanumerics" in "Revulsion" and "Borg alphanumeric code" in "The Raven". A rewrite of the article after a possible rename would be the best. Tom (talk) 20:41, January 22, 2016 (UTC)

Support, as "alphanumeric" appears to have been specifically mentioned in canon... -- Sennim (talk) 17:18, February 8, 2016 (UTC)
Support.--LauraCC (talk) 17:50, February 8, 2016 (UTC)
Uhm "the Raven" calls it "Borg language", at least according to this transcript? Also while if I squint really hard I can kinda see a rationale for not using the term Borg language in Cid's comments, renaming it to Alphanumerics doesn't seem all too compatible with his concerns. -- Capricorn (talk) 05:58, February 24, 2016 (UTC)
And indeed it does, spoken by Harry Kim in scene 48, as confirmed here, so I withdraw my vote...and replace it with an Oppose--Sennim (talk) 16:51, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

While the reference "Borg language" was used in a form of colloquial conversation, Torres specifically worded it more formal in "The Raven" saying "It's a Borg datalink. It contains a succession of log entries written in Borg alphanumeric code." Actually it isn't a language we would typically call a language. Tom (talk) 20:02, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

Borg alphanumeric code doesn't sound like a language either, more like, well, the code in which the mentioned Borg language is written, an alphabet. Which Cid pointed out above, and that's what I meant when I said I didn't see the link between his comments and your proposal. Incidently, at this point I should clarify that my comment was not meant as an against, I was just pointing at inconsistencies I saw in your proposal. You are now saying "Borg language" was used colloquialy (I'm not convinced of that, and really language articles have been created based on less), but your original statement was that the term was never used, and that was what I was trying to correct. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:21, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

The connection between Cid's comment and this rename suggestion can be seen within this comment: "Bolded "alphanumeric code" - if this is a proper title (cite?), let's move the page to that location." It can be cited... Tom (talk) 22:28, February 24, 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough, he did suggest that possibility and I overlooked that takeaway because if you take it together with his next comment he seems to argue for their being two articles, one on the language and one on the code it uses. -- Capricorn (talk) 03:12, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
Are there references to "alphanumeric code" other than in relation to the "Borg language"? We have alphanumeric sequencer, which involves communication, but not with the Borg. - Archduk3 03:43, February 25, 2016 (UTC)
I've wondered about that too, but the closest thing I found was the term "alphanumeric data" being descriptively used in the script of hero worship. There's all kinds of other alphanumeric stuff things too. --- Capricorn (talk) 08:10, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

We have references for alphanumeric sequencer, alphanumeric display, and alphanumeric console. The line from "Revulsion", "I've designed new navigational sensors. Some of the alphanumerics are Borg."; and the line from "The Raven" mentioned above. Tom (talk) 11:11, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

I kinda lean towards Capricorn's assessment that "Borg alphanumeric code doesn't sound like a language either". Taking the formal line from "Raven" and apply some simple substitution such as "It's a Dutch datalink. It contains a succession of log entries written in Roman script.", is somewhat making Capricorn's point, IMO -- Sennim (talk) 11:34, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

We should not forget that the Borg are a species which included technology to the point they cannot exist without it. Everything from the Borg is different in a technological way. You can somehow compare them to a computer network and IMO it makes more sense they have an alphanumeric code as their "language" than simply call it "Borg language". We never heard the "Borg language" as they've adapted to communicate with other species but we saw their "language" on several displays. Tom (talk) 11:39, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

Also true, it is increasingly appearing to be a case of semantics...I believe that in the case of renaming a good opening statement would be "Borg alphanumeric code is the representation of what Harry Kim has called "Borg language" (....)"", or something along these lines...I withdraw my "Oppose" vote as well, and remain Undecided for now--Sennim (talk) 12:03, February 25, 2016 (UTC)

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