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Revision as of 22:53, June 29, 2012 by Archduk3 (Talk | contribs)

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Reconfirmations without objections



The very TOS element in TNG and beyond, and a FA from July 2004. Haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - Archduk3 22:53, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Reconfirmations with objections

Battle of Wolf 359

Template:FA/Battle of Wolf 359

FA from 2004, haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - Archduk3 21:03, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

  • Hold--For the moment (and I DO want this to be featured), I'm missing some info relating to the events leading up to this event (from "The Neutral Zone" in respect to the "Prelude section") and on a very personal note, while it has been split off in the past, I personally would like to see the reintegration of Starships at Wolf 359 into the article--Sennim 21:23, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

That merge should then be suggested as soon as possible, and this can remain on hold until it is resolved. Just an FYI for everyone though, the order I've been using for bringing these up for reconfirmation is the nomination archive (since the list here is still dictated by when the category was added when it was created), so everyone can check the articles likely to be reconfirmed next. - Archduk3 22:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've opened that debate--Sennim 03:09, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
Have addressed IMO the "Neutral zone" notion--Sennim 20:15, June 15, 2012 (UTC)

With the merge and discussion now complete, this can continue. - Archduk3 03:57, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, struck the hold note; have in the meantime elaborated on the BG-section--Sennim 09:50, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
I've tried my hand at writing a blurb, but I'm the first to admit that in-universe writing is not my strong suit, so if this is not up to specs, I apologize and by all means, edit it into smithereens--Sennim 10:46, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I did some work on the blurb to try and trim it down a bit, as it was a little long. This one was much harder to summarize than I expected, so good work Sennim. As for the article, I think the "Aftermath" part is lacking some detail, and the legacy part doesn't mention the sidelining of the Enterprise-E during the next Borg incursion. I'll get to those over the next few days if no one else does. - Archduk3 19:58, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

I like your more tersely reworded blurb...and I'm close to casting a (positive) vote...And btw. I'm not sure if the -E's sidelining is pertinent to this article, I thought that was pertinent to Star Trek: First Contact, aka the Battle of Sector 001--Sennim 20:41, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
There's been some good effort put into the "Background information" section. But with respect, the first paragraph has nothing to do with the subject of the article. The Battle of Wolf 359 isn't even mentioned. The info is more relevant to e.g. "The Neutral Zone", "Q Who" and Borg, which have similar notes already.–Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 06:00, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
I removed the paragraph. I'll archive it here:
Initially conceived by Writer Maurice Hurley as a race of insectoids, Hurley had originally planned the season one episode "The Neutral Zone" to be the first part in a trilogy that would introduce an entirely new threat to the Federation, introducing a plot point that Federation and Romulan starbases along the Romulan Neutral Zone had been mysteriously wiped out. This was intended to lead into a series of episodes that would have introduced the Borg as a main villain in the wake of the Ferengi's complete failure to meet with audience expectations of a major Starfleet antagonist. Unfortunately, the Writer's Guild strike of 1988 prevented this, as well as many other concepts, from coming to fruition in TNG's early days. By the time they made their first appearance in "Q Who", the villain species had been changed from insect to the more budget-friendly cyborg form. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, pp. 169, 180) Hurley finally got to proceed with his planned sequel with "Q Who", although only one passing reference was made of the strange destruction of outposts referred to in "The Neutral Zone" by Data, "It is identical to what happened to the outposts along the Neutral Zone." [1]. Not everyone picked up on the reference, partly due to the absence of the Romulans from the storyline, but they are mentioned when Q says, "You judge yourselves against the pitiful adversaries you have so far encountered -- the Klingons, the Romulans, are nothing compared to what's waiting." [2]
Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 04:41, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
While I'm not entirely convinced for the need of the removal of the paragraph by Cleanse, as I feel that it served as a explanation of the introductory paragraph of the article, I also do not consider it an insurmountable issue, so let me kick this one off, as I'm satisfied:
  • Support--Sennim (talk) 12:55, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
  • I'll choose to oppose this article. I recently made quite a big effort to improve the page as have others, and it still needs work! I, for one, agree with the afore-discussed removal; it's pretty irrelevant. However, a short bginfo statement could be made that links the finding in "The Neutral Zone" to the Borg, explaining the relevance of this in-universe info. The article could be further improved in several different ways. The sentence, "While investigating a planet within that system, scans, performed by the crew of the Enterprise, revealed evidence of a previous advanced civilization on the planet, but also massive surface scarring notably similar to that detected on several Federation and Romulan outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone in 2364, which had removed all machine elements on the planet, suggesting a previous Borg incursion in the Alpha Quadrant" ... should be trimmed. The citations around this area of the article are also unclear, as "The Neutral Zone" and "Q Who" are absurdly given for all the above text! Quite a few of the images are messily arranged, and some more clarification should be given in the short paragraph that has in-universe info from DS9: "Second Sight". At least at this point, the article is certainly not what I would call an example of the community's best work. --Defiant (talk) 16:56, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
A short note in a bginfo template after "The Neutral Zone" info would be okay. What wording did you have in mind?Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 23:44, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
Maybe something like "these attacks were intended to have been committed by an insectoid species which, during the production of TNG, were revised to become the Borg" or "[...] an insectoid species that were, in reality, the conceptual progenitors of the Borg." Something like that, possibly.... --Defiant (talk) 01:13, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
Did some tweaking on the "trimmable sentence", as well as addressing citations and some pic layout work. "Second Sight" citation does not need more clarification IMO, as Sisko is mentioned two paragraphs earlier as a survivor,--Sennim (talk) 12:05, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
Well, how exactly did he "miss" the anniversary?! Was he doing something else at the time, for example, and intentionally didn't commemorate it, or did he simply forget (etc)? The details are currently too few to be clear. --Defiant (talk) 23:36, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
Problem is none will be forthcoming. Sisko merely mentions it in his log at the beginning of the episode,"Personal Log, Stardate 47329.4. I finally realize why I've had trouble sleeping the last few nights. Yesterday was the fourth anniversary of the massacre at Wolf three five nine... the fourth anniversary of Jennifer's death." [3]. Besides, the original author misinterpreted it, having cause and effect mixed up, so I have made adjustments to the text.--Sennim (talk) 01:37, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
As have I, attempting to make it as clear as possible. --Defiant (talk) 09:59, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I've reconsidered Duke's comment about the E's sidelining and came to the conclusion it had pertinence to the "Legacy"-section, so I've written it in--Sennim (talk) 16:31, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
Dear Defiant, while I applaud your (re-)edits of my edits (I particulary like your subtle solution of adding a BG-template concerning the Neutral Zone et al. info) I have reservations about the following:
-Pics: Your removal of two pics is in my view only partially justifiable. The early destruction of the Melbourne is specifically mentioned, so I took the liberty to reinsert the pic, as it is pertinent to the article as written. Your argument of it being it "more related to the actual battle than to any singular vessel" is invalid IMHO. Every single historical work, embellished with pictorial imagery, I've read since WW II (and I've did read quite a few), showed pictorial references of individual participants of said battles, so in my view your position is untenable.
-The paragraph about the break-away models of the cube: You removed that, yet I feel it is pertinent to the article as it is a bonafide BG part of the "aftermath" section of the article, made even more pertinent perchance due to the fact that the producers decided to concentrate on showing that, instead of showing the battle
-The "See what you did"-quote from Okuda...I feel this should be reinserted due to the fact it has direct connections with the battle and it provides some much-needed levity. As far as the two latter points are concerned, it is BG info, more is good in this case...--Sennim (talk) 18:52, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Battle of Sector 001

Template:FA/Battle of Sector 001

FA from 2004, haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - Archduk3 05:21, June 23, 2012 (UTC)

  • Support: makes for a generally enjoyable, enlightening read, IMO. --Defiant 12:51, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose: While the in-universe writing is up to specs, after my exhaustive stint to get the Battle of Wolf 359-article up to specs, I'm not going with this one, which DOES need some serious updating in the BG-section (there is enough out there on Jaegers' contributions, go find out) but I'll leave that to others. For a major happenstance in the franchise, being part of one of the most successful film before the "RE-INVENTION", it should be better documented--Sennim (talk) 21:33, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Early reconfirmations

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