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==Reconfirmations with objections==
==Reconfirmations with objections==
=== [[Battle of Wolf 359]] ===
{{blurb|Battle of Wolf 359}}
FA from 2004, haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - {{User:Archduk3/Sig/nature}} 21:03, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
* '''<s>Hold'''--For the moment (and I '''DO''' want this to be featured), I'm missing some info relating to the events leading up to this event (from {{e|The Neutral Zone}} in respect to the "Prelude section") and on a very personal note, while it has been split off in the past, I personally would like to see the reintegration of [[Starships at Wolf 359]] into the article</s>--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 21:23, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
That merge should then be suggested as soon as possible, and this can remain on hold until it is resolved. Just an FYI for everyone though, the order I've been using for bringing these up for reconfirmation is the [[Memory Alpha:Nominations for featured articles/Archive|nomination archive]] (since the list here is still dictated by when the category was added when it was created), so everyone can check the articles likely to be reconfirmed next. - {{User:Archduk3/Sig/nature}} 22:27, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
:Well, I've opened '''that debate'''--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 03:09, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
:Have addressed IMO the "Neutral zone" notion--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 20:15, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
With the merge and discussion now complete, this can continue. - {{User:Archduk3/Sig/nature}} 03:57, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
:Agreed, struck the hold note; have in the meantime elaborated on the BG-section--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 09:50, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
:I've tried my hand at writing a blurb, but I'm the first to admit that in-universe writing is not my strong suit, so if this is not up to specs, I apologize and by all means, edit it into smithereens--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 10:46, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
I did some work on the blurb to try and trim it down a bit, as it was a little long. This one was much harder to summarize than I expected, so good work Sennim. As for the article, I think the "Aftermath" part is lacking some detail, and the legacy part doesn't mention the sidelining of the ''Enterprise''-E during the next Borg incursion. I'll get to those over the next few days if no one else does. - {{User:Archduk3/Sig/nature}} 19:58, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
:I like your more tersely reworded blurb...and I'm close to casting a (positive) vote...And btw. I'm not sure if the ''-E'''s sidelining is pertinent to this article, I thought that was pertinent to {{film|8}}, aka the [[Battle of Sector 001]]--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] 20:41, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
::There's been some good effort put into the "Background information" section. But with respect, the first paragraph has nothing to do with the subject of the article. The Battle of Wolf 359 isn't even mentioned. The info is more relevant to e.g. {{e|The Neutral Zone}}, {{e|Q Who}} and [[Borg]], which have similar notes already.&ndash;[[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] <small><sup>( [[User talk:Cleanse|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Cleanse|contribs]] )</sup></small> 06:00, June 23, 2012 (UTC)
::I removed the paragraph. I'll archive it here:
::{{bginfo|Initially conceived by Writer [[Maurice Hurley]] as a race of insectoids, Hurley had originally planned the [[TNG Season 1|season one]] episode {{e|The Neutral Zone}} to be the first part in a trilogy that would introduce an entirely new threat to the Federation, introducing a plot point that Federation and Romulan starbases along the [[Romulan Neutral Zone]] had been mysteriously wiped out. This was intended to lead into a series of episodes that would have introduced the Borg as a main villain in the wake of the [[Ferengi]]'s complete failure to meet with audience expectations of a major Starfleet antagonist. Unfortunately, the Writer's Guild strike of 1988 prevented this, as well as many other concepts, from coming to fruition in TNG's early days. By the time they made their first appearance in "Q Who", the villain species had been changed from insect to the more budget-friendly cyborg form. (''[[Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages]]'', pp. 169, 180) Hurley finally got to proceed with his planned sequel with "Q Who", although only one passing reference was made of the strange destruction of outposts referred to in "The Neutral Zone" by [[Data]], "''It is identical to what happened to the outposts along the Neutral Zone.''" []. Not everyone picked up on the reference, partly due to the absence of the Romulans from the storyline, but they are mentioned when Q says, "''You judge yourselves against the pitiful adversaries you have so far encountered -- the Klingons, the Romulans, are nothing compared to what's waiting.''" []}}
::&ndash;[[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] <small><sup>( [[User talk:Cleanse|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Cleanse|contribs]] )</sup></small> 04:41, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
:While I'm not entirely convinced for the need of the removal of the paragraph by Cleanse, as I feel that it served as a explanation of the introductory paragraph of the article, I also do not consider it an insurmountable issue, so let me kick this one off, as I'm satisfied:
*'''Support'''--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 12:55, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
*I'll choose to '''oppose''' this article. I recently made quite a big effort to improve the page as have others, and it ''still'' needs work! I, for one, agree with the afore-discussed removal; it's pretty irrelevant. However, a short bginfo statement could be made that links the finding in "The Neutral Zone" to the Borg, explaining the relevance of this in-universe info. The article could be further improved in several different ways. The sentence, "''While investigating a planet within that system, scans, performed by the crew of the Enterprise, revealed evidence of a previous advanced civilization on the planet, but also massive surface scarring notably similar to that detected on several Federation and Romulan outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone in 2364, which had removed all machine elements on the planet, suggesting a previous Borg incursion in the Alpha Quadrant''" ... should be trimmed. The citations around this area of the article are also unclear, as "The Neutral Zone" and "Q Who" are absurdly given for all the above text! Quite a few of the images are messily arranged, and some more clarification should be given in the short paragraph that has in-universe info from {{DS9|Second Sight}}. At least at this point, the article is certainly not what I would call an example of the community's best work. --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 16:56, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
::A short note in a bginfo template after "The Neutral Zone" info would be okay. What wording did you have in mind?[[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] <small><sup>( [[User talk:Cleanse|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Cleanse|contribs]] )</sup></small> 23:44, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
:::Maybe something like "these attacks were intended to have been committed by an insectoid species which, during the production of TNG, were revised to become the Borg" or "[...] an insectoid species that were, in reality, the conceptual progenitors of the Borg." Something like that, possibly.... --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 01:13, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
:Did some tweaking on the "trimmable sentence", as well as addressing citations and some pic layout work. "Second Sight" citation does not need more clarification IMO, as Sisko is mentioned two paragraphs earlier as a survivor,--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 12:05, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
:::Well, how exactly did he "miss" the anniversary?! Was he doing something else at the time, for example, and intentionally didn't commemorate it, or did he simply forget (etc)? The details are currently too few to be clear. --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 23:36, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
:Problem is none will be forthcoming. Sisko merely mentions it in his log at the beginning of the episode,"''Personal Log, Stardate 47329.4. I finally realize why I've had trouble sleeping the last few nights. Yesterday was the fourth anniversary of the massacre at Wolf three five nine... the fourth anniversary of Jennifer's death.''" []. Besides, the original author misinterpreted it, having cause and effect mixed up, so I have made adjustments to the text.--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 01:37, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
:::As have I, attempting to make it as clear as possible. --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 09:59, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
:I've reconsidered Duke's comment about the E's sidelining and came to the conclusion it had pertinence to the "Legacy"-section, so I've written it in--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 16:31, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
:Dear Defiant, while I applaud your (re-)edits of my edits (I particulary like your subtle solution of adding a BG-template concerning the ''Neutral Zone'' et al. info) I have reservations about the following:
:-Pics: Your removal of two pics is in my view only partially justifiable. The early destruction of the ''Melbourne'' is specifically mentioned, so I took the liberty to reinsert the pic, as it is pertinent to the article as written. Your argument of it being it "more related to the actual battle than to any singular vessel" is invalid IMHO. Every single historical work, embellished with pictorial imagery, I've read since WW II (and I've did read quite a few), showed pictorial references of individual participants of said battles, so in my view your position is untenable.
:-The paragraph about the break-away models of the cube: You removed that, yet I feel it is pertinent to the article as it is a bonafide BG part of the "aftermath" section of the article, made even more pertinent perchance due to the fact that the producers decided to concentrate on showing that, instead of showing the battle
:-The "See what you did"-quote from Okuda...I feel this should be reinserted due to the fact it has direct connections with the battle and it provides some much-needed levity. As far as the two latter points are concerned, it is BG info, more is good in this case...--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 18:52, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
:::All the removed info about the Borg cube is either entirely irrelevant to this article or written in such a way as to make it seem that way, apparently as much as possible; nowhere does it reference the battle, and all the info should instead be found on the [[Borg cube]] page, leading to a completely unnecessary duplication of info if copied here. Basically, the same goes for the "look what you did" quote, which can already be found on ''both'' the {{Class|Nebula}} and {{e|The Best of Both Worlds, Part II}} pages. As for the images, your grounds for opposing my removal of 2 of them have now been made moot by you yourself, seeing as our image formatting doesn't allow for more than one instance of the same image used in any particular article. Since you've placed the images in the "Starships at Wolf 359" gallery, they shouldn't be additionally available (messily arranged) further up the page. I also have a problem with the "Uncertain starships at Wolf 359" listing; what differentiates those ships from the unnamed ''Nebula''-class vessel at the bottom of the in-universe "Starships at Wolf 359" listing? Maybe an explanation of what is meant by "uncertain" could introduce the appropriate subsection(?) --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 00:39, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
:Dear Defiant, thank you for addressing my concerns. I will not contend your arguments, but please allow me to express that I somewhat differ in opinion about some of your basic assertions. I for one do not see anything wrong with duplication of info on ''different'' pages. As for the what you call "messily" placement of pictures (I gather you're meaning the left/right placement of those) I also assert that this is a matter of personal taste. In those cases were a left/right positioning is "called for" I actually find a placement like that appealing as it brings visual symmetry to a paragraph, and while you experience that, as you've stated on another occasion, as "text cluttering" I do not find so, if utilized with care. Please do not construe this as opening salvos for a fight, this absolutely not my intent, but rather as a gentile reminder that opinions and tastes, like people, do exist and ''can'' sometimes result in a stalemate as one does not have precedence over another. Anyways, back at the matter at hand, I agree with your skepticism about the use of the term "uncertain". While I have not come up with a better term, I've tried to write an explanatory intro for clarification...I wonder what your take is on Pseudohuman's removal of the "Nebula" wreck, which he's justified as "retconned out". He's right in that it was retconned out as being the ''Melbourne'', but the thing is still (canonically) there, in both depictions...--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 13:34, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
:::I applaud your effort to write an explanatory introduction to the "uncertain starships" section. I also agree that it's just a difference of opinion about whether the left/right placement of images is messy; it's simply a stylization choice that I'm willing to let slide, as we are meant to encourage differences in style decisions. What's the source for the "retconning" you mentioned? If it's just the ''[[Star Trek Encyclopedia]]'', I would think that should still be in the bginfo section. I also agree with what I assume is your position on this; that, regardless of whether it was an apocryphal source that retconned the ''Nebula''-class as the ''Melbourne'', the listing should remain as it was in the "uncertain starships" table, with more info about the retconning (briefly stated) in either the bginfo section (if it ''is'' just the ''Encyclopedia'' that's responsible) or the apocrypha section. Also, MA's [[MA:Canon|canon policy]] makes it clear that "relevant information should not be referenced in every possible article, but only in the most relevant one." Hence, the info about the Borg cube, which makes no mention of this battle whatsoever, should probably be referenced only in the Borg cube article, etc. --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 01:08, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
::::In the extremely long and messy USS ''Melbourne'' debate we agreed that there was no ''Nebula''-class ship canonically at Wolf 359. It also is not an unnamed ship because it was canonically named. We agreed to go with the interpretation that the Nebula-class model was retconned out of canon from those episodes. we can certainly open this up for a rematch, but this discussion is not the right place for it. --[[User:Pseudohuman|Pseudohuman]] ([[User talk:Pseudohuman|talk]]) 03:25, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
:Brrr, I remember seeing parts of ''that'' particular nasty discussion...Odd solution to disregard visual evidence and pretend the thing is not there at all...But considering the vehemence of the discussion, no thank you, do not feel the need to go there again...I wonder what your guy's position is now on the article, a lot of work by several parties has gone into this article. Is it up to specs now and ready to be voted upon?--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 09:37, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
::::The list of canonical ships with the pics is a bit owerwhelmingly massive.. some of the pics contain more than one ship... if it were up to me, I would remove those pics. other than that, I like the article. --[[User:Pseudohuman|Pseudohuman]] ([[User talk:Pseudohuman|talk]]) 10:04, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
:I understand why you see it that way, there was a reason why I did that. The original placement of the table, left with a large chunk of empty space next to it was visually awkward. Yet, if removal of the pics has consensus, I have no problem with that..--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 10:42, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
:::I wouldn't support any removal of pics from that table. I would instead suggest that we seek out another (more ship-specific) image for the {{USS|Yamaguchi}} (and possibly for the ''Bellerophon''). --[[User:Defiant|Defiant]] ([[User talk:Defiant|talk]]) 11:08, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
:Aside from cropping the available pics, I can't get pics of the mentioned ships in a solitary state. We might have to wait for the remasrterd edition--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 15:13, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
==== Call for votes ====
This article is now on the verge of being denominated as a FA article, which personally, if that were to happen, I'd consider it an ignominious disgrace for MA as it held so much importance for so many ''Trek'' fans, hence the effort I've put into this one, as well as others, among others Defiant...I truly believe, it is now up to specs. So on this note:
*'''Support''', once again
--[[User:Sennim|Sennim]] ([[User talk:Sennim|talk]]) 15:13, July 27, 2012 (UTC)
== Early reconfirmations ==
== Early reconfirmations ==

Revision as of 02:34, August 13, 2012


Reconfirmations without objections



The very TOS element in TNG and beyond, and a FA from July 2004. Haven't read it yet, so I'm not sure if it's still up to snuff. - Archduk3 22:53, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Comment--BG-info, lackluster at best (and no, I'll not go any further into this, I'll leave that up to others)--Sennim (talk) 23:03, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
I've found myself questioning the "locations 'created' by Q" list. There's surely a more appropriate place to put it than just dumping it in the bginfo section. Also, is it complete? It doesn't seem to include the anti-time realities he created, nor the start of the world, in "All Good Things...". --Defiant (talk) 16:10, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Reconfirmations with objections

Early reconfirmations

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